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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: barryguerrero on September 15, 2023, 08:50:27 AM
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Here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X87RhDPSrJU
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This one surprised me a bit. Not because it’s a bad recording or anything, but because I figured he’d find more flaws in it than I did.
This recording is being weird for me. I listened again last night, cranked the volume, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I can’t make up my mind!
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For me it's slightly odd because Bychkov seems to remove a lot of what I'd call the 'Mahlerisms' from the work. Especially the 1st movement. Much of it is downplayed. See the Klezmer sections in the 3rd movement, too. Most recordings really dig in on those sections, here they get the feeling for sure, but it's much more subdued, and I kind of like it within his idea of the movement.
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I too was surprised by Dave Hurwitz's reaction. My own reaction is that Bychkov did really well with the East European/Klezmer sounding sections of the slow movement. In fact, I really like the two inner movements best. I like the release, but not enough to buy either a hard copy, or a hi-def download.
My next purchase will probably be the Vanska M8 (for the SACD aspect), assuming that it turns out to be really good (I can't remember anything about Vanska's tenor, which is always a big deal to me). BIS is going to get themselves involved in the Dolby Atmos nonsense, which means that release will probably be delayed. Who knows - they might not issue a hard copy at this point.
My next Bychkov Mahler purchase will probably be M6. I won't get M9, unless it's absolutely extraordinary (everybody puts their best foot forward on M9 these days). Bychkov/C.P.O. have performances of M3 scheduled for early 2024 (as I recall).
Speaking of tenors in M8, the one on the Markus Stenz M8 (Oehms) - Peter Bagdonovich (WHATEVER HIS NAME IS!) - is very good. The performance is quite fast, but has a protracted, Gary Bertini style ending (and also with huge tam-tam smashes). It's worth owning for the ending of Part II and the tenor alone. Jonathan Nott's tenor isn't quite as good, but his recording has excellent sound quality. It's possibly the best recorded M8 thus far.
I have no idea what comes next from the Netopil cycle (?).
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The Stenz M8 is excellent all around, and I even prefer the quicker pace. It's only about two minutes shorter than the Bertini anyway.
The Nott one is definitely the best recorded M8; it's astounding. Too bad the performance is only adequate, even from the orchestra. It's not bad, just not impressive. One thing that irks me about the Nott cycle is that the 7th is longer than the 8th. That doesn't honestly matter in the end, but it's weird to me when the 7th "holds more weight" than the 8th in a cycle. I should ignore that though because Chailly and Bertini do the same thing.
For Netopil, I'm looking forward to M1, M4, and M7. I'm apprehensive about M5 and M8 considering what we've heard so far. I hope they do Das Lied von der Erde. I don't know if that orchestra would sound great in M10, but who knows?
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Here he goes!
Yep, what DH says is pretty much what I've said on these pages and I wholeheartedly agree with him.
This is as fabulous (M1st? Yes!) as the music can be and in many ways Bychkov fills my bill really perfectly.
As DH mentions, there are tons of details and nuances that Bychkov and CPO are able to bring out like no other teams could do and that alone merits accolades. It's not a very dramatic or rhythmically alert performance, but Bychkov nicely makes up for it by the supreme musicality of his reading. Speaking of the playing, who could top the CPO in Mahler?
I can't wait for their next in the series, a M9th or M6th, I guess.
John
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These days, I think the CPO is the best-sounding orchestra for Mahler. Them or the RCO, but they used to be better.
The BRSO comes pretty close too.
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> These days, I think the CPO is the best-sounding orchestra for Mahler. Them or the RCO, but they used to be better.
The BRSO comes pretty close too.
Agreed. LSO is excellent too for Mahler. I want to hear more of Staatskapelle and PSO doing Mahler.
John
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For "P.S.O.", I assume you mean Pittsburgh. Sadly, I don't think Reference Recording is interested in 'pickup the ball' that Exton dropped on the floor. If R.R. is going to bother to do Bruckner with Honeck/Pittsburgh, I wish they would 'bother' to do B5 and B8. That team is born to do those two works.
Maybe someday there will be captured Mahler performances with D. Gatti/Dresden Staatskapelle. If he could duplicate the magic of his Concertgebouw M3 in Dresden, that would be something. If they could get a corporate underwriter, perhaps - maybe - fingers crossed - DG would start a full cycle. Public opinion will have plenty to do with it (I think).
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Barry,
It is not the Reference Recordings who doesn't want to record Mahler. I once contacted the company and asked precisely the same question: Why wouldn't you record the rest of Mahler Symphonies that Honeck didn't on Exton? They answered me, 'Whichever work the maestro picks to recoprd we'll record it.'
I know for a fact that during the COVID 19 period Honeck & PSO planned to perform M8th but it was cancelled. I bet they wanted to record it for RR as well. Now that the COVID is (nearly) over, let's wait and see if they'll do it sometime in a near furture.
John
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The symphony and Honeck could be fighting 'the board' over repertoire too. Mahler symphonies may be perceived as too expansive to put on, and not attracting a 'younger audience'. Perhaps Honeck has gotten 'cold feet' over his Mahler conducting capabilities. If so, he need not worry. Anyway, I just wish they would record Bruckner 5 and 8, since they've already done B4 and B9.
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If Chicago is any example, Mahler concerts are usually the ones that sell out, or nearly, which is why there are four planned for this season (1, 2, 4, 6). Whenever I’m there, there’s also plenty of younger folk. Maybe it’s Mahler, or maybe it’s Chicago. I’m not sure.
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I think younger generations respond very well to Mahler.
That's my observation and experience^
John
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I think Mahler is the place where both older and younger audience members bump into each other.
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I should probably give it another listen. I do love their sound. One thing I noticed: in the first movement, there's the part where the horns are raucous and do those "whoops." It's almost non-existent there in Bychkov's account. Neumann's, Ancerl's, and Macal version (with the Prague Symphony or maybe a radio orchestra) are similarly restrained. I'll have to see if I still have the Inbal and Macal versions as downloads with the Czech Phil...but I think it's a text issue. Could they be using some alternate parts where that part is way more subdued? Or is it local tradition? Mehta in his New York account really brings that part out in a wonderfully obnoxious way.
https://youtu.be/YTWSJ062V6M?t=737
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The horns also do a raucous trill near the end of the first movement — one of Mahler’s funniest moments I think — and it’s very restrained under Bychkov as already pointed out by Chris. To be fair, in the score it’s only the fourth horn part, and the rest are doing something else. But I love hearing it the way we do on Honeck, Levi, and Fischer.
It’s not that the horns are weak either, I mean listen to the very end. They’re blasting away. It was a musical decision by Bychkov.
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That's similar to the two horn trill's in R. Strauss' "Alpine Symphony". It's in one of the 'mountain peaks' episodes, I think. For me, they're almost always too weak. I think it's a situation where only a few of the dozen or more horns are actually playing them.
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I discovered something very strange on this recording just now. At timestamp 13:15 in the finale, you can faintly hear the blipping of cellular interference in the right channel.
It reminds me of the sound of the pager going off at the start of the MTT / SFSO M5.
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Erik Wilson writes:
"The horns also do a raucous trill near the end of the first movement — one of Mahler’s funniest moments I think — and it’s very restrained under Bychkov as already pointed out by Chris. To be fair, in the score it’s only the fourth horn part, and the rest are doing something else. But I love hearing it the way we do on Honeck, Levi, and Fischer."
Which Fischer? Ivan, Adam, or Thierry?
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Ivan Fischer, if my memory serves. Sorry for not clarifying. It’s pretty crazy that within a span of 10 years we had three recordings of the First by someone named Fischer.
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Erik, thanks for the clarification. I,too, love the sound of that trilling horn, and M1 performances that minimise it are always a bit of a disappointment to me. I guess I need to seek out the Fischer/Budapest recording.