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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: Leo K on May 12, 2007, 12:04:04 AM
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For me it was listening to Bernstein's Harvard Lecture series on LP in 1987 or so...but it wasn't until I ordered Kaplan's M2 in 1989 that I first heard a full symphony...I didn't know what to think at first, as this work seemed classical, romantic and modern and even post-modern in one package...nothing seemed to tie together at all. Bernstein, Karajan and Abbado were my main introductions to the other symphonies in 1990...after hearing Karajan's M6 and Chailly's M10 I became obsessed beyond measure. In 1995 De Waart's live M7 revealed the utter excitement of hearing this music live...I was a newbie and was quite impressed by the packed concert hall in Minneapolis...during the concert I was impressed by the orchestral effects during the scherzo and the loud brassy banging finale.
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It was a very gradual "thang" with me. In college, people kept playing Solti/Chicago Mahler at me, and I never liked it (still don't). I eventually found that I liked Concertgebouw and LSO Mahler much better. The LSO made a number of great Mahler recordings in the the 60's and 70's. I was drawn in by Stoki's M2; Horenstein's M3; Bernstein's M8, and Solti's M9 - all with the LSO. I even like their playing on the recent James DePriest M5, but DePriest totally screws up the end of the finale. Nobody is going to convince me that that guy is a truly great conductor, sorry. Anyway, shortly after college, I got to the point where I was listening to every single Mahler recording I could get my hands on. Eventually, I expanded my taste to Berlin and Vienna Mahler, but only on the better recorded performances (there are plenty of duds with both of them). The rest, as they say, is history.
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Hi,
As a member of a wind band, we made a concert trip to Bad Saeckingen about 20 years ago. As we always try to program some local music to win over the local people, we performed "Der Trompeter von Saeckingen" in an arrangement for wind band, with our principal trumpet player dressed in a robe and feathered hat in front of the orchestra. Didn't have a clue as to who Gustav Mahler was at the time, but that was my start.
Nice memories of Bad Saeckingen too, at the time you could even cross into Switzerland by crossing a small bridge over a river.
Cheers,
Phaedrus
BTW: Ordered the Zinman M2, should be in by today. Can't wait to give it a spin.
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I was on a visit to see my brother near Rochdale,Lancs. from London. This was when i had been listening to classical m. for a year or so. Played his copy of record 2 of the Scherchen 7 (Westminster). He'd bought it s-h after hearing Mahler played by the 'alle Band (as the Halle was known in Manchester).
I remember thinking later,'Loved the brass tune at the start of the finale.'
Then I heard M.1 on the radio and being only a little impressed.
Lastly,I bought the superbargain Delta discs of M.6 under Adler, and by then I was hooked. For some years after,I went to as many M. concerts in London as possible.
I've always been grateful to my bruvver and have told him so.
Ivor
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10th grade, my high school band director had m1 & m2. i borrowed the lps (1965) and was hooked.
dj
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The Second Symphony by Bernstein/NPO was my first exposure to Mahler. After hearing that my life was changed forever.
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I cannot say that, upon hearing a Mahler work for the first time, I was immediately hooked on Mahler. For me, Mahler was an acquired taste, and it took some time for me to get accustomed to his music.
I first heard Mahler in the mid 70's when I bought Bruno Walter's Columbia Odyssey recording of the 9th. I read the liner notes, and found Mahler's story touching, and the music poignant. However, I did not pursue any of the other symphonies.
In college a year later, one of my roommates was heavily into Mahler, and had most of the Haitink recordings. I could not get interested in them. I found the "Brüder Martin" march in Symphony No.1 to be ridiculous (though I liked the first movement). I found it odd that there was singing in so many of the symphonies, and some of the symphonies seemed too long. I was particularly bothered by the fact that the first movement of No. 3 had to be split to two LP sides! However, I later heard the early Columbia Bernstein recording of the 3rd on the radio one day during a long drive, and I found the symphony fascinating. So, gradually, I began to acquire a taste for the rest of Mahler. His polyphony had always sounded like cacophany to me, but eventually my ear began to appreciate all those sounds playing at the same time.
Eventually, I had another roommate who was also into classical music, who hated Mahler. His objections were much like mine had been. Eventually, something clicked for him as well, and another Mahler proselyte was born.
Just remember that when you play a Mahler symphony for some people, they may react negatively, but will hopefully warm to his music over time. When my wife and I were married almost 20 years ago, she had never heard much Mahler, but over time has besome quite a fan. There are still a couple of symphonies she does not know terribly well, but now that her ear "gets" Mahler, she is usually open to all his music.
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Thanks for the great posts here...it's interesting to read how others got into Mahler. It was a slow process for me too.
--Leo
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I was 10 years old when I first heard a Mahler symphony. I think it was the Fourth. At that time a Korean radio station was presenting a whole Mahler cycle but since the time was limited to one hour each day they could not play through the ends of M2, M3, M5-M9, and DLVDE. Can you imagine how frustrating it might have been, not being able to listen to the end part of each symphony. Anyway, upon hearing M4 I said to myself, "Nothing makes sense. Very modern music combined with classical elements, a tender passage followed by thunderous climax?? Who would listen to such music? These were the skeptical thoughts that sprung to my mind immediately. But a several days later they played it again (for some reason I couldn't remember), and this time I exclaimed, "Of course it all makes sense!". Suddenly, the musical passages that I could not follow just a few days back sounded all connected and I got rapidly hooked on the whole piece. That was the beginning of my journey into Mahler and his music. From that point on it actually didn't take too long to master M1 and M2 followed by M5, M8, M3, M7 (which took some time to get used), and then M6, M9, DLVDE, in that order. I recall that upon hearing the complete finale of M2 which took place a year later, I almost freaked out of my seat and ran to my mom to tell her that I've just heard the greatest music I've ever know. As for DLVDE, it was near my house when I heard it for the first time, in the street from a speaker set by a local store.
For me Mahler was like a hidden treasure which I had somehow negelected by ignorance, but once its greatness was recognized I became addicted to the music permanently.
John,
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Around 1960 I travelled 200 miles from my hometown to hear the great French baritone Gerard Souzay singing in an orchestral concert. I was initially disappointed that he wasn't doing any French opera or songs - instead a song cycle about the death of children by a barely-heard-of composer. As I expected the singing was superb, but the music was even better and I was hooked forever. There were few recordings of other Mahler works then, although I did get hold of the DFD/Kempe recording of the above song cycle on a 10-inch EMI (and I still play it).
For my 21st birthday in 1961 some enlightened friends presented me with the DFD/Dickie/Kletzki DLvdE and another new world opened up. Other song cycles became available and helped a move into the symphonies. I had a false start there because everyone said "listen to Berstein" when they should have told me that Bernstein was the only readily-available source in those days. I didn't like his approach then and I don't like it now, so for a while I dismissed the symphonies. But viable alternatives started coming onto the market and the addiction was completed.
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When I was three years old. . . . Now there is a promising opening. The rest of the sentence is: I was listening to a cracked 78 rpm record of Fanny Brice singing "I'm an Indian," played on a windup Victrola--the doors in front providing volume control.
A few years later, shortly after the arrival of the CD, I was shopping for additions to my growing collection. My daughter, a sophomore in college at the time and a student of music, asked, "Do you have any Mahler?" Well, Mahler was a name I had heard but not the music. What came most easily to hand was the ubiquitous Solti-CSO Symphony No. 1. So No. 1 was my number one hearing of Mahler. Noisy but fun. Some months later I picked up No. 4. Even more fun. Every now and then a Mahler piece might be aired on the radio, time permitting. Then one night--about ten years ago, I think--returning home we (my wife and I) had the car radio on, tuned to the local classical music station; and the music was something grand, quite grand. Whose music is that? Wagner? Strauss? Mahler? It was still on when we arrived home, so we rushed in to tune it in. And what a finale! Wow, we both exclaimed. Then the voice of Henry Vogel explained that it was Kiril Kondrashin's interpretation of Mahler's Third Symphony. It took a while and a bit of money, but I finally landed the Kondrashin set. And I was off on a Mahler jag that hasn't diminished yet.
Bless my daughter and Henry Vogel.
. & '
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My dad would listen to M5 sometimes when I was a young kid, in Atlanta. Over the years I very gradually moved away from rock to classical music and sort of completed the transition in college, which corresponded to the height of the Napster boom. I downloaded some anonymous M5 recording and immediately recognized it. Emailed my dad and asked him about Mahler; he said to find a good recording of M5 and M2 and go from there. Now I have at least 4 recordings of each symphony ::). Total overkill.
Just a few weeks ago my dad and I saw M5 live in a very fine performance by the North Carolina Symphony under Grant Lewellyn and it was a lot of fun. They did M2 last year (also very nicely done) and will play M6 this coming November, which I'm really looking forward to.
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Did I say Vogel? Shame on me. It's Henry Fogel. It must have been the influence of friends visiting from Germany.
. & '
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I discovered Mahler through my first discovery of compact discs. I worked as a bagger at a grocery store which was in the vicinity of a music store. My father owned a CD player, so I bought some CDs for a dollar each on the 'Pilz' label. The works were as Dvorak sym# 4, Bizet Carmen suite, Debussy 'The Sea', Mahler 'Titan'. They all impressed me, especially the complications of the Debussy and Mahler. A few months later I started investing in more expensive CDs and my own CD player. Through the accumulation of Mahler symphonies, I knew he was 'the man' for me. It seemed to me that Mahler broke the classical barrier; In other words, he didn't limit his scrutiny to the decadents of acrostoratic pastimes, he was the Earth's composer.
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That was a slow process. In the late 80’s I asked a colleague and friend of mine – violinist in an orchestra – to recommend some “classical” CD’s (I came more from Jazz and some Progressive Rock and wanted to hear more). My favourites at that time were Bach and Bartok.
The most interesting pieces among his selection were Bruckner’s 5th and M5 (Bruckner more than Mahler), but I wasn't totally hooked by the M5. Looking back I would say, that Inbal’s M5 is not the best choice for a newbie. Some time later, some evening (I remember it exactly), I bought the M5 of the Bernstein “collection” of that time (DG). And that did the job: this music totally lived. I heard it again and again. From then – slowly – I tried out the 6th, 1st, 7th and so on. I think all my first choices (Rattle, Solti, Gielen) were not the best one's, but Mahler's music shines through.
Michael
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And everyone else?
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I just joined the Gustav Mahler board, and this is my first post.
I first discovered Mahler in a music appreciation (classical) class I took in college; the year was approximately 1969. At that time, I believe it was Bernstein who was the only conductor thus far to complete the first recorded cycle of the symphonies. During that class, our recorded program guide presented a short snippet from Part II of the Eighth Symphony; I distinctly remember it being Bernstein's LSO recording. The program guide publicized the Eighth as the "Symphony of a Thousand". I was intrigued by the idea conceptualizing the sound of a thousand performers, and soon checked out Bernstein's recording from the college library. Though the sound was colossal to my ears, the basis for the work was too advanced for my developing ear and immature cultural being, which has long since been remedied.
It didn't take too long for me to discover other Mahler works. If I'm not mistaken, it was either the Second or the Third Symphony that I investigated next; the Bernstein/NYPO Columbia and the Haitink/Concertgebouw recordings, respectively.
At the same time, I was also developing as a singer in church and community choral groups. In 1973, a musical highlight of my life was to be able to sing in performances of the Second Symphony, and the following year, in the Eighth Symphony. Oddly enough, I had performed Mahler before I had the opportunity to sing in performances of Beethoven's Ninth, which occurred in 1976.
It is now forty years since I discovered Gustav Mahler. You can say that I've been a lifelong Mahler student, and will be, until I die.
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I just joined the Gustav Mahler board, and this is my first post.
I first discovered Mahler in a music appreciation (classical) class I took in college; the year was approximately 1969. At that time, I believe it was Bernstein who was the only conductor thus far to complete the first recorded cycle of the symphonies. During that class, our recorded program guide presented a short snippet from Part II of the Eighth Symphony; I distinctly remember it being Bernstein's LSO recording. The program guide publicized the Eighth as the "Symphony of a Thousand". I was intrigued by the idea conceptualizing the sound of a thousand performers, and soon checked out Bernstein's recording from the college library. Though the sound was colossal to my ears, the basis for the work was too advanced for my developing ear and immature cultural being, which has long since been remedied.
It didn't take too long for me to discover other Mahler works. If I'm not mistaken, it was either the Second or the Third Symphony that I investigated next; the Bernstein/NYPO Columbia and the Haitink/Concertgebouw recordings, respectively.
At the same time, I was also developing as a singer in church and community choral groups. In 1973, a musical highlight of my life was to be able to sing in performances of the Second Symphony, and the following year, in the Eighth Symphony. Oddly enough, I had performed Mahler before I had the opportunity to sing in performances of Beethoven's Ninth, which occurred in 1976.
It is now forty years since I discovered Gustav Mahler. You can say that I've been a lifelong Mahler student, and will be, until I die.
Thank you for sharing, I really enjoyed reading this...welcome to the board!!
--Todd
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This is a useful thread for recent arrivals, not to mention those who haint responded yet.
Btw, is there a point to the 'not been posted on for 120 days etc.' warning? ???
Ivor
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For me, it was TV broadcast of Abbado's inaugauration concert with the Berliner in 1989 (broadcast in the Netherlands in the summer of 1991). I was 14 years old, trying to catch every bit of classical music on TV (more so than radio), because I had just discovered the magic it carried within. For that reason I had our VCR running and I was trying to do some homework with Mahler's First symphony sounding in the background. My homework had to give way within seconds; as soon as the reveille's in the the clarinets and trumpets sounded, I was bewitched by this extraordinary music. And this enchantment never left me...
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For me, it was TV broadcast of Abbado's inaugauration concert with the Berliner in 1989 (broadcast in the Netherlands in the summer of 1991). I was 14 years old, trying to catch every bit of classical music on TV (more so than radio), because I had just discovered the magic it carried within. For that reason I had our VCR running and I was trying to do some homework with Mahler's First symphony sounding in the background. My homework had to give way within seconds; as soon as the reveille's in the the clarinets and trumpets sounded, I was bewitched by this extraordinary music. And this enchantment never left me...
I taped that program too!!! I was 18 then...first time I really took notice of Abbado as well...I wish I could see that doc again.
--Todd
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Maybe it'l turn up on wonderful YouTube
Ivor
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I had just started high school, and my family had moved to a smaller town, which was kind of depressing. I had been listening to classical music for a couple years and I knew that I would miss having a well-stocked public library nearby.
On PBS I watched a performance of M1, and the third movement struck me like a thunderbolt. I loved how it was simultaneously serious and satiric, and from that moment I could recognize Mahler's music almost instantly.
I bought M1 with Adrian Boult and the Vienna Symphony (not the Phil), on Vanguard I think, and began acquiring other symphonies as meager proceeds from delivering newspapers would allow. I remember having M3 and M9 with Abravanel, and later, M9 with Walter/Columbia, a recording I liked much better, though it would be a few more years before I really understood the music.
One day I turned on WFMT in the middle of M6. After about two notes I said to myself, This is Mahler, and this is my favorite of all I've heard so far.
I attended a small college in Iowa, and one of the benefits of it being a small school was that I walked into the radio station offering my services for anything classical, and was immediately anointed the Classical Director. The faculty advisor was a Mahler enthusiast, and the station manager explained, "If you go to Bob with a purchase order, make sure you include some Mahler and he will sign it immediately." True enough! (Bob is a great guy, we became good friends, and he's one of the last teachers I knew there who's still around. We keep in touch.)
A bit OT, Prokofiev was another of my early enthusiasms, and each time I revisit his music, my estimation of his greatness rises. Last weekend I picked up a copy of "Cinderella" complete on two MHS LPs with Rozhdestvensky and the Moscow Radio Symphony. The discs are fine pressings in miraculously good condition, the performance is outstanding, the sound is way above average for Soviet-era recordings, and the intelligent, perceptive liner notes by David J. Rabinowitz are a blooming miracle.
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Oh to get a job in a radio station like that!
I was told by our radio station that white hair rules me out immediately!!!
But then, I think it's different, totally different, either side of the pond.
On the other hand, I could give it a go. I assume if i reallly,really, really, really, really believe I'm going to get the job, then naturally i will.
Ivor
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Is it OK to post to a topic that's out of date? I thought it would make sense to add my story in the same thread with everyone else. I've enjoyed reading all of your contributions.
I always liked classical music but never really collected much. I had some favorites, Tchaikovsky primarily, Bach, Vivaldi, Chopin (my wife is from Poland, so it's a requirement that I love Chopin!). I also really like chant and early vocal music. I'd never much listened to entire symphonies. I also spent all of middle school and high school playing brass instruments, tuba primarily, at which I was pretty decent if I may be a bit immodest. Bass trombone, trumpet were sidelines. A little electric guitar - very little! More for noise, and impressing girls. :) Well, I was more successful with the noise aspect. :)
Rock was my primary music interest. In the last few years I'd listened to more classical music, and then about a year ago, my local public library received a very large donation of CDs, nearly all classical and covering a very wide spectrum of composers, conductors, periods. I began to borrow these, working my way through the collection. On a lark, I brought home a Mahler CD, first symphony. I greatly enjoyed it, enough to work my way through the others in succession. I paid more attention to some than to others, surprisingly M2 didn't really grab me. I think I maybe didn't get all the way through it. (that's changed now, of course).
Then I brought home M8 (Sinopoli) - blind, I had no idea what to expect. Put it in the CD player, turned it on, cranked it up, walked out of the room to go do something, heard the initial organ blast and choir entry and came running back into the room, speechless. Sat through it all. Was completely hooked from that point on.
I guess the moral of my story is that if you do donate music (or a favorite book) to your local library, know that sometimes it can have a profound and positive effect on someone's life.
Cheers,
Herb
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In the early 80s when I bought my first cd player, I went to Tower in Manhattan and asked a clerk what was the first classical cd I should get. He handed me the (2-disc) Solti M8. I never got through the whole piece. Later, several years later, I came accross the Kubelik M1 coupled with FiDi singing Wayfarer Songs. I bought it because a) I liked Kubelik's handling of Wagner and 2) it was CHEAP. I loved it, and soon invested in the Kubelik Mahler box. That began my Mahler addiction. I still enjoy the Kubelik, but I have 3 Bernstein sets, the Bertini, 2 Haitink sets, the Philharmonic broadcasts, and dozens of singles.
Also since I live in NYC, I get to hear a few Mahler symphonies live each year.
Mahler and Wagner have added a lot to my life.
daniel
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Actually, right after the Kubelik M1 came Maazel and the VPO M4.
It's probably a case of being faithful to my "first" but I still love Kubelik. More often than not, now, though, I listen to the live versions on Audite.
daniel
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My first introduction to Mahler was towards the end of my senior year of high school. I always loved classical music, but I felt like I hadn’t found ‘my’ composer yet. I acquired the Bernstein Sony Box on a whim, after reading so many good things about Mahler on the web. I remember being super excited as I opened the box and saw that purple and orange Bernstein face. I went to my room, started listening, and… I really couldn’t get into it. The symphonies were too long and they just sounded strange to me. I remember that I could never finish any of the symphonies. I don’t even remember if I got through the first movement of any of them.
Fast forward a bit… I am now in college, having a terrible first week. I don’t like my roommate, I feel lost, and I don’t have anyone to talk to… So I turn to that purple and orange face on the box of Mahler symphonies. "Hello Lenny." I decide to give it another try. I pop in the M2, put my headphones on, and close my eyes. HOLY CRAP! What the hell was I thinking back at home? The symphony blew me away! It felt like I just went on some huge journey and ended up flying through the air and… and… holy crap. I instantly identified with Mahler’s music, and I knew that from then on, my life would never be the same.
Fast forward to now… I just graduated from college. I now have over forty Mahler discs, five Mahler books, three Mahler DVDs, and a brand new turntable with eight Mahler lps. I found this board (which has helped me make Mahler purchasing decisions), and I dragged my parents to Tanglewood to see Haitink conduct the M2. (They looked clueless throughout. Classical music doesn’t do anything for them. My dad said, “Well, I don’t know what just happened, but at least there were loud parts.”)
So my Mahler journey started out slow, but when it kicked into gear – it REALLY kicked into gear. I cannot wait to continue discovering great Mahler and sharing my thoughts with you all. I’ve got the Fischer M2 on its way…
-Matt
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So lovely to read about the many different routes people have taken - well each of us is on their individual path after all.
Ivor
P.S. As far as I know, there's nothing to stop anyone reviving any existing thread.
The point og the warning about 30 days [is it?] at the top of old threads does puzzle me a little.
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My earliest memories of Mahler come from my uni days and are somewhat shrouded by the mists of time. I had joined the World Record club and remember being fascinated by the description of the "Resurrection" symphony and ordered the LP. It was the recording by the LSO with Solti and I was completely taken in by it. That I think was the beginning.
A lecturer who was a keen Mahler fan lent me a recording of the fifth symphony which I also immediately loved. I eagerly awaited the WRC catalogues and scoured them for new Mahler issues. Back then, the Gramophone magazine published a small booklet of recommended recordings which I bought and used to help me decide which versions to look out for.
Another occasion that is burned in my memory was from a very hot Sunday afternoon in summer. I was lying on my cheap, rather uncomfortable bed (poor uni student :'() trying to escape from the heat by dozing and listening to the radio. The program was Music for Pleasure with John Cargher on the ABC here in Melbourne. Half asleep I became aware of an incredible piece of music that was playing with a female vocalist. It was Der Abschied from Das Lied von der Erde and I was transfixed. I am not sure which recording it was, but it may have been Yvonne Minton with the Chicago SO conducted by Georg Solti because that is the LP I immediately bought. It is still a favourite, as is the LSO/Solti recording of the 2nd symphony.
The rest, as they say, is history. I have many recordings of Mahler, and although I don't need any more I still keep buying them. When I consider exactly how many I have, I break out into a cold sweat. If I admitted how many here you might be right in thinking I suffer from an OCD. But then again there are worse conditions to suffer from.
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Visit no.1000 to this thread.
I.
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Visit no.1000 to this thread.
Congratulations!
James
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There have been some fascinating responses to Leo K's subject question. I hope more will continue to share their recollections of what first attracted them to Mahler.
In my case it was not my first Mahler recording which was M1. I generally liked it, but was then more attracted to the music of Wagner, Puccini and Mozart. (I wondered why they had added all those vocal bits to spoil the pretty orchestral music.)
Then, much as was the case for Jot N Tittle, late one night I was surfing the classical music stations and I heard some marvelous music that first struck me as the epitome of the word "nostalgic." Yes, it was the "Posthorn Serenade" from M3. The symphony held me spellbound as it culminated in the most powerful finale I'd ever heard. It felt as if the planets were all moving in a gigantic symphony of the cosmos. I was surprised to notice that my eyes had begun to fill with tears. It left Wagner far behind. Eagerly, I rushed to buy an M3 to hear the whole symphony. The one that attracted my attention first was James Levine and the CSO with Marilyn Horne. I loved the cover art (by illustrator Maurice Sendak) showing a composing hut in the forest at night, with animals gathered around, listening, and an angel offering a bouquet of roses to the composer working at his desk.
To my amazement as I read the program notes, the “nostalgic” portion I had heard was indeed Mahler’s musical capturing of the story of an old coachman, who used to ride his route with his friend, and both would regularly stop at a hillside above a meadow to enjoy the moonlit natural beauty below. The friend had now passed away, but the coachman would always stop at the meadow to blow a nostalgic salute to his old friend.
I went on to meet each other symphony and the lieder, and got to know them as new friends. Every time I hear a new performance, it is like learning something new about a dear friend. It makes them more and more a part of my life. I’m sure others here at the board have similar feelings, and I hope you'll share them.
John Haueisen
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Like many on this thread, my Mahler epiphany was a gradual one spread over many years. In the mid 1960s I found Mahler’s Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen on a supplemental listening list when I was in music school. I dutifully listened to it with absolutely no lasting effect. At that time, Mahler was barely mentioned in any class. I do remember hearing some buzz amongst students regarding Bernstein’s Mahler advocacy, but again, nothing clicked with me.
A few years later, I found myself in the record business (nothing glamorous, just wholesale distribution). I could buy any record at significant discount, so I took advantage of the situation. I remember being able to buy any Vanguard record for literally pennies. One I bought was Mahler’s Fifth with Vaclav Neumann, with Berg’s excerpts of Wozzeck on the fourth side, by another conductor as I recall. I liked M5 -- especially the trumpet intro, which seemed novel to me at the time. But it was the Wozzeck I was really interested in, so once again Mahler had to wait.
I then became aware of M1 and M4 via the radio. Remember back when public radio played entire symphonies? I consequently bought cheapie Laserlight-like copies of these two Mahler symphonies, which helped lay some foundation. I liked both, especially M4. But still no big bright light appeared sending me over the edge.
Then, one day in the mid-nineties I happened to take home Solti’s CSO recording of the "Resurrection." I saw the light. I was delighted to see the Dover score at my local Barnes & Noble bookstore. For the next five years, I obsessed over this piece. I didn’t spread out into the other Mahler works, even though I bought some of the other symphonies. But for quite a while it was M2 and M2 only that occupied my Mahler time. I bought multiple versions on CD…a strange thing for me to do as I was always a one copy and move on kind of collector: after all there was only one A Love Supreme, wasn’t there?
Just lately I have embarked on my serious Mahler journey. I have bought multiple copies of all the symphonies, plus all the scores. I am now in the middle of some serious study. I’ve been through all 10 and Das Lied, and am starting over with M1. I am forcing myself to put some thoughts down on each -- this of course forces me to make this music mine. That said, I shall not become as familiar as some with not only this music, but also all the recorded performances of it. That is why I’m here.
Just as he predicted, Mahler’s time has come.
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Greetings John and a most interesting start.
It is so interesting to see how individual all our paths are.
Ivor
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John and Ivor,
Yes, it is so interesting to hear how each of us "comes to Mahler."
Yes, I'm a bit obsessive about this music, but I still feel as if I have been blessed by the gods to have been allocated the grace to appreciate and come to love Mahler's connection that is for me above and beyond our daily world.
John Haueisen
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It's funny, but I was actually thinking of posting a queston just like this when I saw Leo's post. I have certainly enjoyed reading the responses. Many of which have brought tears to my eyes.
Back in 1968 when I was 18 when I babysat for a coworker. She had a RCA classical sampler that contained Leinsdorf's M1, 2nd movement. I had read about Mahler in Stereo Review so was intrigued to hear what he sounded like. I was so taken by the music that I immediately ordered the Solti M1 & M9 (the recordings had received a "Recording of Special Merit" in Stereo Review). Now, can two symphonies be so different? However, I loved both of them. "And the rest is history," as they say.
There is an antedote I would like to share, however. While in Vietnam in '69/70, the Armed Forces Radio and Television (AFRTS - we pronounced it "A-FARTS") would run some classical program that would start with a collage of music. A very short segment of the collage was Lennie conducting something that was fantastic. Didn't know what the music was from, but knew I had to find out.
While home on leave from 'Nam, I decided to pull out one of the Mahler symphonies I had purchased before going to 'Nam, the 4th. Now, I hadn't gotten into the 4th like I had the 1st, 2nd, 7th, & 9th. The 4th was, well...b-o-r-i-n-g. (Keep in mind that at the time I listened to my LPs on a tiny Arvin (I think that was the brand name) record destroyer.) So, here I was listening to the 4th while catching up on my Stereo Review reading when suddenly, there it was, the music I had heard Lennie conduct on AFRTS! :o It was the coda to the 3rd movement! Needless to say, I listened to the 4th with new ears from that point onward.
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My discovery of Mahler happened about a decade ago when I was in my late teens. Prior to that time, I had begun my exploring of music online with the intent of expanding my knowledge from a historical as well as technical standpoint. I sampled music from a variety of genres, and "classical" was on my list of things to try. At the time, I enjoyed novelty and chromaticism. Recently I heard discussion on radiolab of research that indicates our brains have certain features which seek to make sense out of even the most discordant patterns in music, and it is that process of making sense that some people find exhilarating. To give an idea of my musical sensibilities, I greatly enjoy late era Coltrane with all of its seemingly chaotic and frenetic structures.
Back to the topic at hand, my first Mahler purchase was almost Kubelik's M1, due to the raving reviews on Amazon, but I was intrigued by the differences of opinion regarding Boulez's CSO M1, with some regarding it as cold and analytical and others finding it to be cathartic. And so it was, my first exposure to Mahler came through Boulez's interpretation of M1. Like others, I too was fascinated by the grotesque nature of the third movement and found it delightful. Back then, I was only interested in symphonies, and I had an aversion to vocal and choral pieces. Therefore, I avoided M2, 3, 4, and 8, plus the songs. Looking back, how foolish of me! For M5, 6, 7, and 9, I decided to stick with Boulez. They were only digested in small pieces. I remember particularly enjoying the first movement of M9. Over the years my musical tastes evolved, and I went through any number of fads, but I always came back to Mahler.
Over the past two years I've started to develop a more serious appreciation and a closer relationship to his music. For the first time, I was brought to tears by M2 and M3, (Walter NYP and Chailly RCO), and Boulez's M6. I recently received the EMI 150th anniversary box set, and have made it just to M3, but will press on. If I am ever to learn any music in great depth, I think it should be Mahler. My thoughts aren't well organized, but it is hard to imagine a more genuine expression of hope in the face of reality than I've found in Mahler. It is heartwarming to know that people from many different backgrounds have found a common source of joy in experiencing this music.
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Over the past two years I've started to develop a more serious appreciation and a closer relationship to his music. For the first time, I was brought to tears by M2 and M3, (Walter NYP and Chailly RCO), and Boulez's M6. I recently received the EMI 150th anniversary box set, and have made it just to M3, but will press on. If I am ever to learn any music in great depth, I think it should be Mahler. My thoughts aren't well organized, but it is hard to imagine a more genuine expression of hope in the face of reality than I've found in Mahler. It is heartwarming to know that people from many different backgrounds have found a common source of joy in experiencing this music.
You're doing fine - just keep headed in the direction you're going, but don't let it stop with Mahler. You'll eventually need to learn about what composers influenced Mahler, particularly Wagner. And you need to learn about Mahler's contemporary, Richard Strauss. All of the big names who wrote classical orchestral music worked off of their forebears and went down their own roads in their contributions to that genre.
Wade
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Hi Wade,
Your advice is appreciated. I have started to research Mahler's musical contemporaries and forebears, as well as other prominent conductors and their stylistic progeny. This will certainly keep me busy for quite some time! I cannot however imagine a better hobby. As a programmer and web developer, I hope that my studies will eventually allow me to construct a resource that will prove valuable to others in navigating the same territory.
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I'd discovered classical music at 15 years old. Though as a child with a good ear, I'd find myself immersed in the music from films, at about six years of age the ape scene in 2001 playing R. Strauss made a overpowering euphoria throughout my body. When the Cape Fear remake came out on cable, I made a crude recording of the score directly from the tv speakers. At 15, after discovering much such music existed, I'd bought some very inexpensive import cds under the Pilz label, Mahle's Titan was one of them. I instintly loved the light waltzlish movement and upon memorizing the furious opening to the finally, loved it also. The next thing I'd heard from Mahler was the opening to the fifth. I new Mahler was profoundly grave and highly idiosyncratic a composer. He became my favorite rather quickly. Though it was his bombastic side and sensual klessmeresque nature I'd liked initially, I've learned to love all of his sound universe.
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Wade, ysph, and Clov: Good points about the benefits of hearing the music of Mahler's contemporaries.
As you did, Clov, the first time I heard Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (2001), I was struck by the idea that the music was saying something important.
I'm still trying to articulate the similarities between Strauss and Mahler. So far, the best I can do is to suggest that for me at least, Mahler is much more personal in what he speaks.
Does anyone else have any ideas concerning the similarities and differences between Mahler and Strauss?
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I'm still trying to articulate the similarities between Strauss and Mahler. So far, the best I can do is to suggest that for me at least, Mahler is much more personal in what he speaks.
Yes, virtually all of Mahler's music came from within. Though both were composition masters, Strauss didn't have the personal issues that Mahler did when it came to composition. As a result, Strauss tended to compose and orchestrate moreso to impress, as opposed to wanting to deliver a profound statement, as did Mahler. It wasn't until about the last decade of Strauss' life that the impending aura of taking leave of this world affected his compositional outlook. One example of a work he wrote in his last decade was Metamorphosen, for strings, which contains a quote from his earlier tone poem, Death and Transfiguration. The signature work he wrote as his farewell to the world was the Four Last Songs.
Years ago, I had the privilege of hearing renown German soprano, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, sing the Four Last Songs in a live concert here in Washington, DC, with Antal Dorati conducting the National Symphony Orchestra. That concert also featured the legendary Also sprach Zarathustra. If you want a famous recording of the Four Last Songs, get the EMI one with Schwarzkopf singing them with George Szell conducting. Also, there is the recording of the premiere performance of the work shortly after Strauss' death, with Kirsten Flagstad singing and Wilhelm Furtwangler conducting.
Wade
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I'm still trying to articulate the similarities between Strauss and Mahler. So far, the best I can do is to suggest that for me at least, Mahler is much more personal in what he speaks.
Yes, virtually all of Mahler's music came from within. Though both were composition masters, Strauss didn't have the personal issues that Mahler did when it came to composition. As a result, Strauss tended to compose and orchestrate moreso to impress, as opposed to wanting to deliver a profound statement, as did Mahler. It wasn't until about the last decade of Strauss' life that the impending aura of taking leave of this world affected his compositional outlook. One example of a work he wrote in his last decade was Metamorphosen, for strings, which contains a quote from his earlier tone poem, Death and Transfiguration. The signature work he wrote as his farewell to the world was the Four Last Songs.
Years ago, I had the privilege of hearing renown German soprano, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, sing the Four Last Songs in a live concert here in Washington, DC, with Antal Dorati conducting the National Symphony Orchestra. That concert also featured the legendary Also sprach Zarathustra. If you want a famous recording of the Four Last Songs, get the EMI one with Schwarzkopf singing them with George Szell conducting. Also, there is the recording of the premiere performance of the work shortly after Strauss' death, with Kirsten Flagstad singing and Wilhelm Furtwangler conducting.
Wade
You've expressed that very well, Wade. I agree about how Strauss wrote more to impress audiences (and to make money!), until his later years.
His final opera, Capriccio (1942) was a mature look back on his long, successful career as a composer, and on what opera (and life?) was all about.
I can imagine what delight you have to have a memory of Schwarzkopf singing his Four Last Songs.
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I'm not sure I agree with these generalities. Strauss took the Nietzsche business quite seriously. Furthermore, I think he took the whole concept of 'tone poems' quite seriously as well. As opposed to Mahler, Strauss was trying to present 'late romantic' orchestral writing in a more concentrated form. I really don't belive that this is something that Strauss took lightly at all. There's no question that he meant to shock with both "Salome" and "Elektra". The "Alpen Sinfonie" - a work that is often time poo-poo'd as a lightweight - is now thought to be something of a tribute to Mahler. There's no question that Strauss bordered on the frivolous from time to time (Rosenkavalier comes across that way to me), but Mahler built his frivolous moments into his symphonies. Furthermore, Mahler also became quite concerned about money himself, once he finally started earning some serious coin (and had a family to care for). I think far too much has been made of this idea that Strauss was in it, 'mostly for the money'. That also begs the question, what's wrong with that?
I think a more accurate description of the Mahler/Strauss relationship came from Mahler himself, when he stated that he and Strauss were boring tunnels towards the same goal from opposite ends of a mountain (something along those lines).
Barry
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Quite right, and bear in mind that the two men stayed in personal correspondence for more than 20 years!
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Perhaps a difference between them is that sometimes [often?] Strauss wrote for money. I'd suggest Mahler never di and tried to meet his bills through his conducting and opera directorships instead.
Ivor
P.S. 'Begging the question' has a specific and different meaning. To keep the language a bit cleaner, I prefer 'that raises the question' or 'the question then is' or some such. <Gets off hobby-horse> ;)
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I'm not sure I agree with these generalities. Strauss took the Nietzsche business quite seriously. Furthermore, I think he took the whole concept of 'tone poems' quite seriously as well. As opposed to Mahler, Strauss was trying to present 'late romantic' orchestral writing in a more concentrated form. I really don't belive that this is something that Strauss took lightly at all. There's no question that he meant to shock with both "Salome" and "Elektra". The "Alpen Sinfonie" - a work that is often time poo-poo'd as a lightweight - is now thought to be something of a tribute to Mahler. There's no question that Strauss bordered on the frivolous from time to time (Rosenkavalier comes across that way to me), but Mahler built his frivolous moments into his symphonies.
Barry
Barry, do you recall where it is mentioned that the Alpen Sinfonie might be something of a tribute to Mahler? I'm not disputing it--I find it intriguing.
--Constantin
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P.S. 'Begging the question' has a specific and different meaning. To keep the language a bit cleaner, I prefer 'that raises the question' or 'the question then is' or some such.
Quite right, sir, but I'm afraid this one's gone so far as to have become a lost cause. Just another—and in this case sad—example of our language "evolving," accelerated by frequent transgressions in the mass media.
James
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...do you recall where it is mentioned that the Alpen Sinfonie might be something of a tribute to Mahler? I'm not disputing it--I find it intriguing.
Constantin,
The only connection I know of between Strauss and Mahler concerning Eine Alpensinfonie is this: On the day after he learned of Mahler's death, Strauss wrote the following passage in his journal:
"The death of this aspiring, idealistic, energetic artist [is] a grave loss. Mahler, the Jew, could achieve elevation in Christianity. As an old man the hero Wagner turned to it under the influence of Schopenhauer. It is clear to me that the German nation will achieve new creative energy only by liberating itself from Christianity....I shall call my alpine symphony: Der Antichrist, since it represents: moral purification through one's own strength, liberation through work, [and] worship of eternal magnificent nature."
The three values Strauss mentions were certainly Mahler's as well, but this alone could hardly be considered a tribute. Perhaps Barry had something else in mind.
James
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"Barry, do you recall where it is mentioned that the Alpen Sinfonie might be something of a tribute to Mahler? I'm not disputing it--I find it intriguing."
Off the top of my head, I don't recall. It certainly wasn't in any Mahler biography that I can remember. Instead, I'm pretty certain that I've seen that suggestion in liner notes to the "Alpine". It certainly rings true to me, but it would also be difficult to prove. What is truly beyond dispute, is that Strauss was quite despondent over Mahler dieing at such a young age.
Barry
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"Quite right, sir, but I'm afraid this one's gone so far as to have become a lost cause. Just another—and in this case sad—example of our language "evolving," accelerated by frequent transgressions in the mass media."
James, bugged by this I sent roughly the following to BBC radio 5 live "'Begging the question' has a specific meaning. If I say parallel lines will never meet because they're parallel, that IS 'begging the question' - assuming as true what you are trying to prove. You mean 'that raises the question', 'the question is then....' et cetera. I'm sure if you keep pracrtising one of those in the mirror, they'll get to be natural in time."
I sent the same note to Private Eye, adding P.S. I thought you lot were hedgemecated."
Since then, using the wrong phrase has become virtually obsolete on BBC radios 4 and 5, at least. The Beeb came up with 'that poses the question..' instead.
Ivor
P.S. About to start my 11th trip though Mahler's works. Might try it for the first time with Strauss some time.
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"Barry, do you recall where it is mentioned that the Alpen Sinfonie might be something of a tribute to Mahler? I'm not disputing it--I find it intriguing."
Off the top of my head, I don't recall. It certainly wasn't in any Mahler biography that I can remember. Instead, I'm pretty certain that I've seen that suggestion in liner notes to the "Alpine". It certainly rings true to me, but it would also be difficult to prove. What is truly beyond dispute, is that Strauss was quite despondent over Mahler dieing at such a young age.
Barry
Barry, I know what you are talking about when you speak of reading liner notes and the difficulty of proving remembrances. I had the same experience last year, when I was speaking of the Posthorn Serenade of M3, and the story of the post coachman who played his posthorn above the valley below. Of the first dozen or so references I went to, I could find no explanation of the story I had read years earlier on liner notes from Levine's M3 LP, I believed. I finally found the story or rather poem of the Posthorn, first written down by Austrian music critic, Ernst Decsey, who had told Mahler that he recognized the inspiration for the Posthorn Serenade in the poem, "Lieblich war die Maiennacht, or Der Postilion (The Post Horn)."
Mahler confirmed to Decsey that reading that poem had been his inspiration. It turns out that on Mahler's score, he had written at the first post horn entry, "Der Postillon."
For those who are interested, this anecdote is recounted on page 102 of Floros' Gustav Mahler: The Symphonies.
Constantin
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...do you recall where it is mentioned that the Alpen Sinfonie might be something of a tribute to Mahler? I'm not disputing it--I find it intriguing.
Constantin,
The only connection I know of between Strauss and Mahler concerning Eine Alpensinfonie is this: On the day after he learned of Mahler's death, Strauss wrote the following passage in his journal:
"The death of this aspiring, idealistic, energetic artist [is] a grave loss. Mahler, the Jew, could achieve elevation in Christianity. As an old man the hero Wagner turned to it under the influence of Schopenhauer. It is clear to me that the German nation will achieve new creative energy only by liberating itself from Christianity....I shall call my alpine symphony: Der Antichrist, since it represents: moral purification through one's own strength, liberation through work, [and] worship of eternal magnificent nature."
The three values Strauss mentions were certainly Mahler's as well, but this alone could hardly be considered a tribute.
James
Thank you for this information, James. Despite the three kind adjectives that Strauss uses to describe Mahler, his remarks about Mahler, the Jew and Wagner, (whose Christianity was precipitated by Schopenhauer !) do not sound like true praise, so much as a condemnation of Christianity.
Perhaps it's small wonder that Mahler and Strauss were more aptly described as colleagues rather than as really "truly close friends."
Constantin
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My first exposure to Mahler was in my senior year of high school (only two years ago). I was given the Manfred Honeck and Pittsburgh recording of Mahler 1 and it opened up a whole new area of music for me and I was hooked. Since then, I have tried to acquire great Mahler recordings and done a lot of reading on him, as I find the man to be a fascinating individual.
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Welcome to the Mahler Board, Aaron.
James
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Aaron,
By all means, keep collecting the Honeck/Pittsburgh series. The 3rd is incredible, and the 4th is fairly good too. I think it's going to continue to be a good series. My prediction is that their M6 will be awesome (they don't perform it until later in 2012, I think). Anyway, welcome to the Mahler nuthouse.
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Hello Aaron
I envy you and anyone starting out on your Mahler voyage. There's something special about the early days and the first hearings of all of the works.
I say 'all' because I don't think he really composed a dud.
Best wishes
Ivor
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Thank you everyone for being so welcoming. To stillivor, it really is an awesome thing when you first discover Mahler. To barry, I have the M3 (incredible) and I have watched the webcast from when Pittsburgh performed M5 in the Philharmonie in Berlin on 9/11 (also incredible). I am interested to see how Honeck interprets M6 (movement order, number of hammer strokes, etc.). However he interprets it, I am sure Pittsburgh will sound fantastic doing it.
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I was pushed in at the deep end: went to a concert aged 12 to hear Mozart's 5th violin concerto, and after the interval was Mahler 6.
I was completely blown away and since then have listened to Mahler pretty much every day! Love it!
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Btw, welcome Frankie
Ivor
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My first Mahler recording was the 1st with Chicago Symphony and Giulini. I liked it, but not more than so. Later I got the 2nd symphony and since then I have been devoted to Mahler for almost 40 years.
Btw, last Saturday I heard the 2nd live for the first time. It was a great experience for me !
/Olle
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Välkommen till GustavMahlerboard, Olle.
Roffe
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Welcome Olofne. Look forward to benefiting from your experience.
Ivor
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interesting thread and great forum!I am reader for some time.
I've discovered Mahler via classical radio station. I've been listening to that station constantly, waiting for some Wagner (which was my first classical-music hero) but then, at some evening of 2005, they've broadcasted 5th symphony. I've never heard of Mahler before so I was bit astounded when I've heard funeral march as the first part of a symphony. My first thought was: what a great sense of humour that composer had! :) Some days after I've bought cheap 5th cd with Nanut conducting and the rest is history...
best regards for all posters. my english is a bit poor to join some discussions, but I read 90% of threads here
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interesting thread and great forum!I am reader for some time.
I've discovered Mahler via classical radio station. I've been listening to that station constantly, waiting for some Wagner (which was my first classical-music hero) but then, at some evening of 2005, they've broadcasted 5th symphony. I've never heard of Mahler before so I was bit astounded when I've heard funeral march as the first part of a symphony. My first thought was: what a great sense of humour that composer had! :) Some days after I've bought cheap 5th cd with Nanut conducting and the rest is history...
best regards for all posters. my english is a bit poor to join some discussions, but I read 90% of threads here
Welcome ! ! !
Discovered Mahler via a compact disc for one dollar at Blockbuster Music in roughly 1995. It was M1 'Der Titan'.
Rondo-Finale from M5 is one of my all time favorite movements of Mahler.
I've become stuck to the Inbal/FRSO and Bernstein/Vienna recordings of this movement, making it near impossible to enjoy others performances, though I've definitely tried.
I heard someone say this is musical laziness; I disagree.
Besides, I don't want the recording companies 'laughing all the way to the bank' on my account.
;)
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Don't fret. I and others have already mad them wealthy. Explore alternatives & enjoy!
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Don't fret. I and others have already mad them wealthy. Explore alternatives & enjoy!
I've done my part also. My comment was in retrospect and hindsight only I'm affraid. :-\
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Hi guys, this is my first post on this forum. Firstly I apologize for my poor english, I'm writing from Italy. ::)
Here is how I discovered Mahler's amazing music. It's kinda funny. You know, I use to turn the radio on when I wake up, but in fact I won't get out of bed without first listening to a couple of songs. So I'm used to listen to whatever music Radio3 (the "cultural" radio channel in Italy) is playing while I'm between sleeping and waking. You know how responsive the brain is to music while being in between sleeping and waking. So one morning I got out of bed and I was like "uhm, was it a heavenly dream or have I really listened to one of the most beautiful and deep music I've ever heard?". That music really shocked me, it was like a revelation, the kind of experience I won't ever forget, even if I can't really remember anything precise about that.
So I ran to the computer and wait for the list of songs played by Radio3 that morning. It turned out the song was the Urlicht from Symphony no. 2, I think played by Petra Lang and Chailly. From that day on, I fell in love with Mahler's music, and I'm still in love with it like on the first day.
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Welcome to the Mahler Board, Paz. Your story of "first contact" is an interesting one; how long ago was your experience with Urlicht and how did things develop after that?
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Welcome to the Gustav Mahler Board, Paz. Don't worry about your English (it doesn't seem bad to me); here we discuss Mahler's life and music to the best of our ability.
Roffe
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Speaking of discovering Mahler, has anyone here checked out filmmaker Jason Starr's DVDs on the M2 and M3? I stumbled across them on Amazon, where they received mixed reviews. He apparently discusses what the music may be about while playing excerpts. Those of us who have read countless CD and LP jackets and/or biographies of Mahler might not get much out of them; but I was wondering if they'd be a good introduction to non-Mahlerites?
Anyone seen them?
dave
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Welcome to the Mahler Board, Paz. Your story of "first contact" is an interesting one; how long ago was your experience with Urlicht and how did things develop after that?
Thank you, James. My "first contact" was 4 years ago. Then I went on listening to M5 and Des Knaben Wunderhorn. Then M2, and so on... Now I love all Mahler's symphonies and Lieder. They're so amazing. :)
Welcome to the Gustav Mahler Board, Paz. Don't worry about your English (it doesn't seem bad to me); here we discuss Mahler's life and music to the best of our ability.
Roffe
Thanks! :)
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Speaking of discovering Mahler, has anyone here checked out filmmaker Jason Starr's DVDs on the M2 and M3? I stumbled across them on Amazon, where they received mixed reviews. He apparently discusses what the music may be about while playing excerpts. Those of us who have read countless CD and LP jackets and/or biographies of Mahler might not get much out of them; but I was wondering if they'd be a good introduction to non-Mahlerites?
Anyone seen them?
dave
I have the one on M2, and am considering getting the one on M3. I have mixed feelings about the one on M2, though that's only one man's opinion, and he was lucky to be able to put his impressions onto film. There are likely as many different opinions as there are advocates of both M2 and M3 feel that the symphonies are telling them.
Wade
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Wade, does the film follow Mahler's notes for the symphony, in which he describes what happens in each movement (march of the dead, great summons, etc)?
Dave
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Wade, does the film follow Mahler's notes for the symphony, in which he describes what happens in each movement (march of the dead, great summons, etc)?
Dave
Yes, it does, pretty much. The selection of visual media to illustrate the various programmatic aspects of M2 may not be to everyone's (including me) liking, but as I said, that was one man's visual interpretation. That might account for the so-so reception of the film.
Wade
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Jason Starr's documentary on M3 (What the Universe Tells Me) seems to be available on YouTube in four parts (total length: about 1 hour):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bArhdP88dGE
Roffe
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Thanks, guys for the info and link. I was thinking my wife might get something out of these. She's at least getting to the point that she recognizes when Mahler is playing on the stereo, even if she doesn't know the work.
Dave
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About 4 years ago my wife asked me about a few boxes of LPs I still had in storage, which in turn led me to buying a turntable to listen to them, which in turn led me to the local used records store, where the classical LPs are cheap as dirt, where I started buying all the classical music I had always meant to try but hadn't back in the dark days of expensive classical CDs. Among the stacks of music I brought home was Kubelik's M2, and when I put it on I was floored by the intensity and brilliance of the music, and have kept adding to my Mahler collection and have since listened to many versions of all the symphonies (except m8), and every time I take some time off from Mahler and come back to his music, I say out loud to myself or others how much more interesting and deep and rich and varied his music is than anyone else's (much as I love Bach, and having spent long periods of my life listening to nothing but Bach), I simply can't believe sometimes how it took me so long to find Mahler's music, and how he's still not universally recognised as a culmination of everything that's great and worthwhile in western music.
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" a culmination of everything that's great and worthwhile in western music. "
I completely agree with that sentiment. But it took me a long time to come around to Mahler's music as well. When I went to Cal State Northridge for one semester (mid '70s), the guys there all shoved the Solti/Chicago recordings down my throat. I thought they were totally unmusical, and somehow associated that fault with the music itself. What finally turned me around was hearing Stokowski's L.S.O. M2 while turning a corner to see Mt. Lassen in front of us (riding in a car with a CSO Chico trumpet player friend) - right at the majestic, panoramic scene for brass in the finale. It was as though a light suddenly went on.
To this day, I can only 'respect' the Solti/C.S.O. recordings at most. There's just no music in them.
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Unfortunately I started my Mahler experience with some awful recordings (such as Otmar Suitner's horribly rushed Mahler 5)--that was the time when I was still a complete newbie to classical music and hadn't realised that different artists performing the same music could come out sounding completely different (so I couldn't tell which were good and which weren't). I thought back then that Mahler wasn't anything special, until a friend lent me Bernstein's DG M2 and 3: those two recordings were my real introductions to Mahler's music. I heard both and was completely hooked: two sections that particularly struck me were the opening of the 5th movement--simply nothing like anything I'd heard till that moment--and the wild rabble section of the middle of M3. I came away completely blown away by this movement of strange incoherence and juxtaposition of the banal and the sublime.
But since during that time I had no way of obtaining the rest of Bernstein's Mahler cycle, I had to resort to borrowing Mahler discs from the library (and I was taught to discern between good and bad recordings). So I got my hands on gems such as Kubelik's Audite cycle, Barenboim's M7, etc.
The first Mahler recording I bought for myself was Rattle's Bournemouth M10 (a pretty unorthodox way to start a Mahler collection, esp. for a newbie!), and very soon I got Mehta's M2 for Christmas. My first complete Mahler set was Solti's (actually my first Mahler set was Levine's but it wasn't complete), and for a while I was extremely impressed with the CSO brass and the sonics; it soon wore off in the face of sets by Boulez, Haitink, Levine, Abbado, Tennstedt, etc. But when I want to get a naughty thrill, I return to the Solti set.
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I was so upset and scared at the time of Tiananmen Square massacre of 1989. I decided stay home and took several days off from work. I took out the un-opened Kubelik LP set which I bought years ago but never bother to listen to it. I listened to all the LP's for four days non-stop. Was hooked instantly.
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Wow, that's quite a way to get started; sort of like jumping into the deep end of the pool at a young age. Good for you.
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How did I discover Mahler? It’s strange how chance encounters can completely change your life - it all started way back just after Christmas 1990 when I switched on the TV and happened to catch the end of one of Leonard Bernstein’s “Unanswered Question” lectures, shown as a tribute to the composer/conductor who had died a few months earlier. I had heard very little of Mahler’s music previously but was totally overwhelmed by Bernstein’s performance of the final movement of Mahler’s 9th - this music spoke to me in a way I had never before experienced. I had to find out more, and gradually discovered all of Mahler’s symphonies and most of his songs, devouring Henry Louis De La Grange’s biography as though it were a racy novel!
To cut a long story short, a couple of years later I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to go first to college then to university as a mature student to study music to diploma level – after a break of nine years I’m now working towards completing my degree through the (British) Open University. It has been a totally life-changing experience, and I’ve discovered a huge amount of music and met many interesting people, some of whom have become good friends.
Although I have great respect for Bernstein as a teacher and to some extent as a composer, my favourite Mahler conductor is probably Barbirolli. I love all the symphonies but my favourite is still the ninth - or the Resurrection, or the sixth – or the fifth, or perhaps the seventh, not forgetting the third – it’s really difficult to choose!
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"I’m now working towards completing my degree through the (British) Open University"
Good for you and best of luck.
"it’s really difficult to choose!"
Agreed - so true. Funny enough, my least favorite Mahler symphonies are probably the three most popular ones: M2, M5 and M9. But that doesn't really much because I would still choose those three symphonies over the vast majority of works by other composers. As great as M9 is, I still prefer Bruckner 9 sans conjectural finale. Perhaps if Bruckner had finished the 9th, I might not like it nearly so much. But that's speculation.
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I was eleven, and my father brought the Kubelik's Titan LP. I used to listen to it with my headphones, eyes closed, and let images emerge from the bottom of my childish fantasy. Quite often I used to imagine aliens world and vulcanic planets in eruption. Some time later the italian television started broadcasting the Bernstein cycle at the Musikverein, and it was a weekly must see for the whole family, sitting on the sofa and trying to get by those scary, difficult but so emotively attractive rivers of notes. I remember the sweat falling from the enormous Lenny's nose, the pathos, the climax, it was more about life, pain and happiness, than just classical music.
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Interesting thread.
I remember exactly how. As a Boy Scout I was doing my community service at the public library. Like most libraries in the 60's they loaned out LPs that were donated by record companies. So we had a large collection from RCA, Columbia, and Angel. My job one night was to check in returned items. One evening this lady I knew brought back the Bernstein Mahler 7th. She said, "This is just remarkable! You must try it." She knew I had a deep interest in classical and checked out records myself all the time. So I took it home that night and listened. Even as a 13-year-old I was awestruck - the weird, fascinating harmonies and dazzling orchestration hooked me at once. I kept that set for two weeks listening almost daily. And over the next year I checked it out several more times. I loved it! Then, my folks told me we were moving out of town. I was now desperate! That M7 would be out of reach. So I managed to put it on two 60 minute cassettes (that was a real challenge in those days) and at least had it to listen to in crappy mono cassette sound. But the move wasn't all that bad because near the new home was Recordland. And what do you know? They had the M7 in the Klemperer recording. Ugh! It was so slow, so dull. He ruined the M7. But then eventually I found the Bernstein and had my own copy and was happy again. Then came Scherchen and the M7 hoard began.
Related... at this same time (about 1970) I was given two tickets to hear the Stockholm Philharmonic with Antal Dorati. On the program: the 5th symphony. Blew me away. At that time M7 and M5 were the only Mahler I knew, but I was sure this was a composer worth getting to know better and Mahler has turned into a lifetime obsession. Is there any other composer who inspires such a following?
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" I was given two tickets to hear the Stockholm Philharmonic with Antal Dorati. On the program: the 5th symphony."
They recorded it! I had the L.P.'s but gave them to a friend who was a big fan of Dorati.
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Dorati's farewell concert with the National Symphony Orchestra of Washington, DC was M5. I really hated to see him go. Management there treated his shoddily and didn't want to renew his contract. The only halfway decent music director they've had since Dorati was Slatkin.
Wade
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This is my firs post, but since it's all about Mahler beginnings that would seem appropriate.
My first Mahler introduction came in a flood throughout a mid-90s summer, during one of those long breaks between my first and second year at university. I had managed to get hold of a new PC and found myself experimenting with a CD ROM encyclopedia (this all sounds so antiquated now). All of the sound files were possible to access without going through the encylopedia, so I played around with those relating to classical composers. By that time I was familiar with a fair bit of Holst, Rimsky-Korsakov, Vaughan Williams and lots of film composers. In one of the move soundrack sleeves there was a reference to Mahler as an 'influence' so I picked out Mahler on the CD ROM. There was a sample from the finale of the First Symphony. Shortly after that I bought Yuri Simonov's RPO Collection recording of the whole first and loved it (not so keen on that recording now!). Then came a flood of Proms listening sessions on BBC radio 3 during the same summer. I heard the 2nd, 3rd and 6th, from which point I found myself inexplicably losing money and gaining CDs.
I seem to remember that my first full 'set' came between that point and December the same year, which was not a financially sensible thing to do at all. But hey ho. The first set was quite straightforward, with many choices that I still love now. In order they were: 1 (Simonov), 2 (Kaplan LSO), 5 (Abbado in Berlin), 6 (Boulez in Vienna), 7 (Abbado in Chicago), 4 (Maazel in Vienna), 3 (Abbado in Vienna), 8 (Tennstedt Studio version), 9 (Karajan I), 10 (Rattle Bournemouth), Das Lied von der erde (Haitink + lots of orchestral songs on a Philips Duo). The next year I added Das Klagende Lied (Chailly) and stopped for a bit. At this point you'll probably all spot that I was somewhat dependent on the Penguin Guide, largely because internet access in mid-90s Oxford was very slow indeed!
The interesting thing is how it all developed from there. I occasionally caught snippets of performances on the radio and always wondered 'what if I preferred another version, am I losing out?'. At that point I acquired Rattle's Second and Abbado's Berlin First, and although they may not be everyone's cup of it they did rather make it clear that different versions brought different benefits and deficits. From that point the freight train of Mahler purchases slowly groaned into motion, somewhat reaching full speed what I was at my second teaching (Mathematics not Music) post at a boarding school in England (where I had spare cash because I didn't have to pay any rent!). Nowadays each symphony is represented at least 60 times in my collection, though that's a silly point really now that we have so much available to stream.
Currently I am working through Sinopoli's set again, marvelling at just how 'different' it sounds now that I am listening with more experience (than when I bought it about 10 year ago I think).
The Mahler experience is still changing for me, not least through the discovery of Jens Malte Fischer's biography and Benjamin Zander's interesting lectures as recorded alongside his symphony discs. Some of Bernstein's lectures have altered my view, too, so it continues to be about new discoveries. My latest purchases threw up some interesting points. I was prepared to be wowed by Jansons' Radio Recordings disc of the 7th on RCO live, but was cruelly disappointed because someone appeared to be trying to kill the first trumpet throughout. Maazel's third set is now complete for me, too, and I still wonder how he managed to make the 8th move so slowly (though I did really enjoy the - also slow - 7th in THAT set). Also recently I dug out a second hand copy of Tennsted's Chicago First and loved it for all the swagger and character.
New recordings continue to bore, enthrall, excite, depress me depending on my mood and their mood, so the journey seems to restart over and over again.
All the best
Nick
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Thanks for writing in. I'd be curious to know how the Malte Fischer biography changed your Mahler experience. While it's the best single book biography out there, I'm also a little skeptical of its constant negative tone regarding Mahler's legendary moodiness and social awkwardness. I think it's a tad exaggerated, especially after rereading Norman Lebrecht's "Mahler Remembered".
Some of Benjamin Zander's Mahler is pretty darn good. Some of it is a bit micro-managed (M4). I particularly like his M3, M5 and M9. Zander realized that he had created a patched-up 'train wreck' out of the first movement of M3, so he went back and recorded it again in one take. I'm glad he did because it's really very good.
My only complaints about Zander's M3 is that the offstage posthorn solo is a tad too distant, and Lili Paasikivi isn't ideal for the fourth movement (a tad too light sounding). Beyond that, I really like it.
Zander's M9 doesn't have the greatest sound by any means, but it's an 'honest' live recording. I'm hoping that at some point, Linn Records and the Philharmonia will agree to record M7 and M8 with him. There was a 'pirate' going around of a live Zander/Boston Phil. M8 that, as I recall, was really very good. Maybe he could someday get that released to Youtube, or some such place.
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... symphony is represented at least 60 times in my collection, though that's a silly point...
Not silly at all. I don't have nearly 60, closer to 30. There is no composer for whom listening to alternative versions is so enlightening and interesting. And I don't give a hoot about streaming. I know it's the way of the future, but I want the physical product. Storage of CDs is quite a problem and I built a wall that is 20 x 10 Ft will closely spaced shelves - and I'm nearly full up. And there are devices that can store 6000 CDs on it. But I don't want that, I don't want to do streaming. So it's not silly. Of course, when I croak my heirs are going to have a heck of a time unloading the disks - seems libraries don't want them. They're hard to sell on eBay. Add to that the diminishing number of people who listen to classical and the landfills are going to be quite full of compact disks.
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Hi there.
Malte Fischer's bio helped me to understand a lot more about the circumstances surrounding the creation of each symphony. This is in much more depth than any cd liner note can give, yet it filters out enough detail to make it possible to read! I would suggest that my Mahler listening was tad more superficial (though not totally so) because I understood less of what he was trying to achieve.
The many comments on Mahler's mood and temperament didn't really influence my feelings in the music as much as you might think because I hear rather more optimism and positivity than is often suggested by Mahler's more pessimistic followers.
To be honest Zander's lectures have taught me a lot more about how to actually listen to Mahler. His comments on 'emotional counterpoint', for example really tie nicely with other great sources of information. Here I think of the magnificent, impromptu illustrations that Leonard Bernstein gave on his Das Lied von der Erde DVD. Most significantly he described the 'duality' aspects of the work most vividly, and Zander's description of the thing he called 'emotional counterpoint' is pretty consistrnt with LB's views.
Now you mention Zander's Third. Alas I am yet to respond to it. I find it underpowered, but will listen again on your suggestion. I had the same issue with his 6th.
Have you heard the Zander lecture on the Second? During the discussion he revealed that he had recorded the entire Resurrection for Telarc and then cancelled the recoring on the grounds that he had not satisfied his own needs for genuine rubato (amongst other things). I listened to his Linn Resurrection before I heard the companion lecture and felt that the sound lacked openness, and I was irritated by what I thought of as a very mannered and over elasticised second movement. To then hear Zander tell us a out the magnificent sound and wonderful rubato in the second movement shocked me a little! To make matters worse he plays some snippets from the defunct Telarc recording and they sounded utterly magnificent! He lost me there, alas.
But I do love the recordings of 1,4,5,9. Yes the recorded sound on the 9th is a little hardh, but the ear adjusts and it's a very well argued approach.
I bet he'lldo a grest 7th and 8th.
N
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If you like a 'powerful' M3, I can recommend Alan Gilbert/N.Y. Phil. and Manfred Honeck/Pittsburgh S.O. on Exton. Those two may be very favorites. I also like the dvd with Paavo Jarvi/Frankfurt Radio S.O. (yes, more than the Abbado).
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I really like the Honeck on Exton. Great sound, passionate playing. Haven't heard the Gilbert/NY. But another M3 that I thoroughly enjoy is the Semyon Bychkov with the Koln orchestra on Avie. One of the great, unsung conductors who should have a bigger profile.
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Hi
Yes the Honeck is one of my very favourites, but the Gilbert would be new to me. Will seek it out in a short while!
If pressed for a favourite Third i'd actually include Chailly, Nott, Honeck and (any) Abbado in my shortlist, though it's such a 'personal' thing that I can imagine wild disagreements here! My wildcard would be Mehta in LA, which is a riot! Probably not idiomatic, not subtle, not authentic just a riot. I found it far more riveting than his other two versions!
N
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Yes, Maureen Forrester is really good on that Mehta/L.A. M3. She's also good on Haitink's first one with the Concertgebouw. The Mehta/L.A. recordings of Richard Strauss are really competitive - one of the best "Alpen Sinfonie" going. I also very much like the other Los Angeles M3: Salonen/Sony Classical. Unfortunately, that one got recorded in the Chandler Pavillion, as opposed to Royce Hall (UCLA). But I like how the Salonen has a million different tracks. Anna Larsson is real good on the Salonen.
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I've only listened to that particular Haitink version once. I'll have to dust it off and listen again. I am more familiar with Haitink's Berlin and Kerstmatinee versions, both of which I enjoy hugely, but despite owning a copy of Haitink's Berlin DVD for some years now I have't got to it yet! With Haitink I tend to find that he 'does' some of the symphonies rather better than others. I am not a fan of any one of his Fifths, for example!