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General Category => Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions => Topic started by: chalkpie on September 01, 2010, 04:34:45 AM
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Simple: What are your absolute favorite Strauss works and recordings? Maybe it won't hurt to include why you fancy a particular work.
I own a good deal of RS, but I need some motivation to go back and explore some of this stuff.
Thanks and fire away......
[cue Also Sprach Zarathustra................]
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RS is not too high on my list of favorite composers because, IMO, his music tends to go over the flashy surfaces. But there are a few exceptions that I enjoy all the time - Death and Transfiguration, Domestic Symphony, Alpine Symphony, and Elektra. Recordings of these works I like are
D&T - Szell/CVLO/Sony, Karajan/BPO/DG (1970s), Sinopoli/NYPO/DG
Domestic Symphony - Reiner/CSO/RCA, Szell/CVLO/Sony, Mehta/BPO/Sony, Schwarz/SSO/Delos
Alpine Symphony - Mehta/LAPO/Decca, Karajan/BPO/DG
Elektra - Bohm/DS/DG, Solti/VPO/Decca
Personally, I like these Strauss works because they more or less bear a close resemblance to Mahler symphonies in terms of style, orchestration, and philosophical themes.
John,
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Richard Strauss is a composer who ive always been drawn due to his great orchestrations, although i have a lot to explore in his music.
Don Juan - Karajan/BPO/1973 and Halle/Elder
Also Sprach Zarathustra - Karajan/BPO/1974 but still on the lookout for a modern day recording, hoping Sony release the Luisi/Dresden recording
Ein Heldenleben Luisi/Dresden Staatskapelle
Metamorphosen same CD as above
Alpine Symphony - Karajan/BPO/1981
Tod und Verklarung - Ashkenazy/Cleveland Orchestra
4 Last songs - cant beat Schwarzkopf and Szell
Tod und Verklarung would be my favourite of the lot at the moment and that Ashkenazy recording was the 1st i heard, i did subsequently get the Karajan recording from 1983 but for me he doesnt get the opening right, or at least i prefer it the way its done on the Ashkenazy recording. I also prefer the firey playing from the Cleveland Orchestra compared to some sections with the BPO that are slower. But its been awhile since ive listened to the Karajan D&T so i'll give it another listen soon. Ive never been a big opera fan but that may change in the future, would anyone recommend a Strauss opera for a non-opera fan?
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With the responses thus far, and with the possible exception of one response, I find it puzzling that the Richard Strauss recording output conducted by Fritz Reiner and Karl Böhm has been largely overlooked, or people here simply don't know much about these conductors. Both of those conductors were very close artistically and professionally with Strauss, almost identical a friendship status as that shared with Mahler by Walter and Klemperer, and both sets of artistic friendships occurred at about the same time, though Strauss lived much longer than Mahler. I could go into considerable detail about both of these conductors' Strauss recordings, as it would be beyond the scope and very much off topic to do so, but I'll make some basic comments below.
Both Reiner's and Böhm's Richard Strauss recordings are very well known, though Böhm lived longer than Reiner and had the advantage of being able to record nearly all of the Strauss operas in Europe where costs for doing that were considerably cheaper there than here in the U.S. You can hear Reiner's complete Metropolitan Opera Strauss performances of Salome, Elektra (two of each), and Der Rosenkavalier, on non-commercial, private recordings, but he wasn't able to have microphones present at his other Strauss opera performances, most of which occurred much earlier in Europe. Otherwise, you can hear Reiner's Strauss opera performances via excerpts on commercial recordings by RCA and Columbia Masterworks. Reiner also gained fame as conducting the premiere of Die Frau ohne Schatten (The Woman without a Shadow) when music director in Dresden after WWI.
If nothing else, Reiner's fame on records as a Richard Strauss conductor is secured through the very early stereo recordings he made for RCA in 1954(!) of Also sprach Zarathustra and Ein Heldenleben. These two recordings have stood the test of time and have become references as to how these works should be performed. Though Reiner was considered somewhat reserved in many of his Strauss and other composers' performances, he could generate fire, and control that fire with exactitude all at the same time without abandon. I was at a subscribers' social years ago when Leonard Slatkin was about to enter his first season as music director of the National Symphony Orchestra of Washington, DC, and I asked him what his plans were for doing recordings with the NSO. He responded that he didn't plan to record any "warhorses", and he backed up that statement by asking "Why should I bother to make a recording of Ein Heldenleben when Reiner said all that there is to say about it?"
I'll close my statements about Reiner by saying that almost all of his stereo Chicago Symphony Orchestra Richard Strauss recordings have been reissued as SACDs, for the sound on them is not only that good, and the performances are nonpareil. Also, he made some Strauss recordings while he was musical director of the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra in the 1940's, though issuance of these on CD were pretty much on an obscure French label, so they're hard to find, and LP issuances of them are likewise hard to find and often in poor shape and a bit on the expensive side from second-hand purveyors of classical recordings.
Karl Böhm, another renown conductor of Richard Strauss, generally tended to be more a reserved conductor than Reiner, and usually didn't deliver his Strauss with fire that Reiner did. As I mention above, most of Böhm's fame with Strauss was with the operas, though he did make recordings of Strauss orchestral works that are worth having. Virtually all of Böhm's Strauss output was recorded by Deutsche Grammophon. His recording of Also sprach Zarathustra in 1958 in stereo, was a Grammy winner.
Wade
P.S. - I forgot two other conductors who were artistic friends/confidantes of Richard Strauss, and for which recordings exist:
George Szell - He recorded some of the orchestral works with the Cleveland Orchestra and some of the songs for orchestra, including Four Last Songs, in Europe (mentioned above). Most of these were recorded in stereo for Columbia Masterworks and the vocal works were recorded in stereo for EMI in Europe.
Clemens Krauss - His output dates to the pre-stereo days in Europe, most of which were recorded by London/Decca. There are recordings of the more renown Strauss operas and many of the orchestral works, including an obscure recording of Strauss' early orchestral work, Aus Italien (From Italy). His Der Rosenkavalier is considered legendary. I don't recall exactly if any of these were ever issued on CD, but they generally go for a good price from second-hand sources.
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Ive never been a big opera fan but that may change in the future, would anyone recommend a Strauss opera for a non-opera fan?
Take your Strauss opera in degrees, for Strauss opera is not easy to listen to. Start with excerpts, such as the SACD of Salome/Elektra excerpts by Reiner/Chicago Symphony. Inge Borkh is excellent, but the real star is the CSO, and they play like men possessed! Then "graduate" to complete Salome and Elektra performances by Böhm or Solti. The "elegant" Strauss is in Der Rosenkavalier and Ariadne auf Naxos.
Wade
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I don't always get excited about Reiner's Strauss, but I love and very much admire Bohm's Strauss.
I have Bohnm's first stereo recording of Die Frau Ohne Schatten and have enjoyed it all these years.
I have Bohm's classy recording of Ein Heldeleben with VPO/DG from the 70s and regard it one of benchmark recordings of the work.
I also love his final recording of Strauss opera, Elektra with VPO (available on DVD).
John,
P.S. How about Thielemenn's recordings of Alpine Symphony and Ein Heldeleben? Has anyone heard them?
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I don't always get excited about Reiner's Strauss, but I love and very much admire Bohm's Strauss.
Sorry to hear that, but what's steak to some may be hamburger for others. As I said before, Böhm's Strauss is more elegant, whereas Reiner's can be well-controlled, plus have panache as well.
I have Bohnm's first stereo recording of Die Frau Ohne Schatten and have enjoyed it all these years.
It is a great recording in good sound. I also have his later live DG recording with the Vienna State Opera with Birgit Nilsson as the Dyer's Wife.
I have Bohm's classy recording of Ein Heldeleben with VPO/DG from the 70s and regard it one of benchmark recordings of the work.
I have this, as well as his earlier monophonic Dresden recording. When the Böhm Strauss orchestral 3-CD set came out, DG apparently preferred issuing the earlier Dresden recording as opposed to the later VPO. I'll have to do a back-to-back listen to figure out why this happened. I've seen a video of a 1963 VPO concert where he performed Ein Heldenleben, which gives the visual Böhm conducting at an earlier point in his career.
I also love his final recording of Strauss opera, Elektra with VPO (available on DVD).
John,
This is definitely a valedictory document, and it has an extra showing Böhm during the recording sessions. You can see that he looks like he's almost at death's door, and he himself made no bones about it. It was obviously a sad, as well as a happy time for everyone involved. It took considerable effort for Böhm to get this recording done, for he passed on during the Fall following the August when the recording was made. I would prefer to go back to his early stereo Elektra as a definite recording by him, but it suffers from too many cuts.
P.S. How about Thielemenn's recordings of Alpine Symphony and Ein Heldeleben? Has anyone heard them?
Unfortunately, not me.
Wade
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Quote from: John Kim on September 01, 2010, 12:56:07 PM
P.S. How about Thielemenn's recordings of Alpine Symphony and Ein Heldeleben? Has anyone heard them?
Unfortunately, not me.
Wade
Could you be specific about what's bothering you in Thielemann's Strauss recordings - Alpine Symphony & Ein Hedeleben with VPO?
I have not heard either one of these and am considering get them.
Thanks.
John,
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Quote from: John Kim on September 01, 2010, 12:56:07 PM
P.S. How about Thielemenn's recordings of Alpine Symphony and Ein Heldeleben? Has anyone heard them?
Unfortunately, not me.
Wade
Could you be specific about what's bothering you in Thielemann's Strauss recordings - Alpine Symphony & Ein Hedeleben with VPO?
I have not heard either one of these and am considering get them.
Thanks.
John,
John,
Nothing bothers me about them. I was saying that I haven't heard them, so I'm unable to tell you what I think about them.
Wade
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I've tried on a few occasions to get into Strauss' music. Saw a live "Elektra" (didn't move me), live Don Juan (some interesting music there), Karajan's Also Sprach ... (didn't get it; though, "2001" is a highlight in my DVD collection). A month ago I borrowed from the library Karajan's "Alpensinfonie".
I am blown away.
It might be simple music, some tunes even borrowed from what I've read, it might be easier to grasp because of its programme, but the music touches my brain in all the right positions and I'm simply amazed by it (just ask my neighbours).
So while I'm still reserved about Strauss' music in general I'm still open to try some other works by him.
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I've tried on a few occasions to get into Strauss' music. Saw a live "Elektra" (didn't move me), live Don Juan (some interesting music there), Karajan's Also Sprach ... (didn't get it; though, "2001" is a highlight in my DVD collection). A month ago I borrowed from the library Karajan's "Alpensinfonie".
I am blown away.
It might be simple music, some tunes even borrowed from what I've read, it might be easier to grasp because of its programme, but the music touches my brain in all the right positions and I'm simply amazed by it (just ask my neighbours).
So while I'm still reserved about Strauss' music in general I'm still open to try some other works by him.
I don't want to scare anyone away, but for the most part, the output by Richard Strauss post-1910, is difficult to listen to. Prior to that, most of what he composed pretty much followed a straight melodic line, with the assigned instruments following that line, some often at a higher dynamic level than others. But when you get into works like Der Rosenkavalier, it becomes difficult, as he started spinning multiple melodies all at the same time, many at the same dynamic level. It requires a multi-dimensional ear to follow aurally, what's going on. Still yet more difficult is to follow along in the score what's going on, if you're lucky to keep up, as I was unsuccessful in Rosenkavalier. Most of you here who have mentioned Eine Alpensinfonie will acknowledge that listening to this work can be difficult in places to listen to. Keeping up with the music in the score is an entirely different matter. :o But nevertheless, it's definitely a challenge, and I enjoy that. A now-deceased horn player friend who freelanced said years ago that when he played in a concert performance of Elektra with Dorati and the National Symphony, his assigned part was some of the most difficult music he ever had to play.
From what I hear and see in their scores, Mahler appears to be a bit less complex to listen to, and to follow in the score. If what my intuition tells me is likely correct, Mahler wrote more of a straight melodic line in general, compared to what Strauss did.
Barry, if you happen to read this, it would be interesting to get your impressions of playing Richard Strauss vs. Mahler. Do you think Richard Strauss' music, in general, is more difficult than Mahler's to play?
Wade
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Great discussion so far on this cat - thanks guys. I am going to attempt to listen to all of my RS discs in chronological order over the next few days, and see where that goes.
My collection is as follows:
Also Sprach/Don Juan: Berliner Von Karajan Dg Gold
4 Last Songs/Orchesterlieder/Der Rosenkavalier Suite: Eschenbach Houston RCA
Till Eulenspiegel/Ein Heldenleben: Barenboim CSO
Alpensinfonie: Von Karajan Berliner DG Gold
Don Quixote/Tod Und Verklarung: Levine Met Orchestra DG
Two Horn Concertos: Sawallisch Philharmonia Orch. EMI
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I've tried on a few occasions to get into Strauss' music. Saw a live "Elektra" (didn't move me), live Don Juan (some interesting music there), Karajan's Also Sprach ... (didn't get it; though, "2001" is a highlight in my DVD collection). A month ago I borrowed from the library Karajan's "Alpensinfonie".
I am blown away.
It might be simple music, some tunes even borrowed from what I've read, it might be easier to grasp because of its programme, but the music touches my brain in all the right positions and I'm simply amazed by it (just ask my neighbours).
So while I'm still reserved about Strauss' music in general I'm still open to try some other works by him.
I don't want to scare anyone away, but for the most part, the output by Richard Strauss post-1910, is difficult to listen to. Prior to that, most of what he composed pretty much followed a straight melodic line, with the assigned instruments following that line, some often at a higher dynamic level than others. But when you get into works like Der Rosenkavalier, it becomes difficult, as he started spinning multiple melodies all at the same time, many at the same dynamic level. It requires a multi-dimensional ear to follow aurally, what's going on. Still yet more difficult is to follow along in the score what's going on, if you're lucky to keep up, as I was unsuccessful in Rosenkavalier. Most of you here who have mentioned Eine Alpensinfonie will acknowledge that listening to this work can be difficult in places to listen to. Keeping up with the music in the score is an entirely different matter. :o But nevertheless, it's definitely a challenge, and I enjoy that. A now-deceased horn player friend who freelanced said years ago that when he played in a concert performance of Elektra with Dorati and the National Symphony, his assigned part was some of the most difficult music he ever had to play.
From what I hear and see in their scores, Mahler appears to be a bit less complex to listen to, and to follow in the score. If what my intuition tells me is likely correct, Mahler wrote more of a straight melodic line in general, compared to what Strauss did.
Barry, if you happen to read this, it would be interesting to get your impressions of playing Richard Strauss vs. Mahler. Do you think Richard Strauss' music, in general, is more difficult than Mahler's to play?
Wade
Wade,
Good points on RS. I generally agree with your observations. Yes, both were highly polyphonic composers but Mahler is less difficult to listen to because his music better organized and streamlined so as to sound 'listener friendly'. OTOH, it seems that RS - frequently - wrote music for the sake of polyphony itself. It's certainly not easy to listen to.
Still, I like RS for what he is.
Regards,
John,
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Aside from the various great recordings of the Alpine Symphony, I really like the Wolfgang Sawallisch "Die Frau ohne Schatten" on DVD - more so than the Solti.
http://www.amazon.com/R-Strauss-Frau-Ohne-Schatten/dp/B000MRP1YQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1283484784&sr=1-2
I also really like the dvd of the Bohm/Gotz Friedrich "Salome".
http://www.amazon.com/R-Strauss-Salome-Teresa-Stratas/dp/B000NVL49W/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1283484980&sr=1-1
Like Mahler, I don't care for "Elektra" at all. It seems to be sort of an opera person's opera. Same for "Rosenkavalier", which does nothing for me.
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Richard Strauss is not my favorite composer either but I do have a few works by him that I enjoy a lot, like his Double Concerto for Clarinet and Bassoon, Death and Transfiguration, and Last Four Songs.
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"Could you be specific about what's bothering you in Thielemann's Strauss recordings - Alpine Symphony & Ein Hedeleben with VPO?"
Sure: they suck. There are LOTS of better recordings of both works, even with the V.P.O.. With the VPO, I feel that both the Previn and Ozawa "Alpine" symphonies are far better than the Thielemann. Solti made a great albeit fast "Heldenleben" with the V.P.O., recorded in the generous acoustics of the Sofiensaal in the late '70s. For one thing, the Thielmann recordings don't even sound particularly good.
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I forgot to mention earlier that Strauss himself recorded his own music rather prolifically. As far as I know, he didn't record any during the acoustic era, but what I have in my own collection are electrical recordings. These range from ones he made in the 1930's to the 1941 Eine Alpensinfonie, and his 1944 Magnetophon (an early tape recording system) recordings he made with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. And I believe that the last recording he made was one of Elektra made while on a trip to London in 1947, two years before he died. Many of his recordings of his own works have been reissued on CD, and are well worth hearing.
As far as a conductor in general, George Szell put it best whenever Strauss was on the podium. Other than being a master of conducting economy, there was "the disinterested Strauss" and "the Strauss that cared". The "disinterested Strauss" would plod along, pull out his watch, look at the time, and if things were falling behind, he would pick up the tempo". There is a DVD that has a film of Strauss conducting Till Eulenspiegel in "The Art of Conducting - Legendary Conductors of a Golden Era". In addition to seeing Strauss conduct, it also has the interview with George Szell talking about "the disinterested Strauss".
Wade
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I'm not a huge Strauss fan either. don't care for "Also Sprach" aside from the 2001 opening minute and a half.
However, I quite like Rosenkavalier. My wife and I saw a great production in Houston years ago with Renee Fleming, Suzannne Mentser and Dawn Upshaw; conducted by Eschenbach. I also like the DVD with Kiri te Kanawa as the Marchallin, conducted by Solti.
I also like the tone poems Don Juan and Til Eulenspiegel and I fairly enjoy the Alpine symphony (I think my version is by Previn). That's about all I care for from RS.
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I've always enjoyed Strauss for one of the reasons that others dislike him: his ability with "program music."
He could capture and portray sound images of visual scenes. Of course, a fine example of this is the Alpine Symphony, in which he takes us along on a climb up the Alps. We hear streams, storms, a blazing sunrise in which you can almost feel the radiant warmth.
In a similar fashion, Mahler captured feelings. Consider the nostalgia of the Posthorn Serenade from M3 or the yearning in M5's Adagietto. That's why I always mention Mahler's almost shock at what inspired Strauss--when Strauss would reply to the effect that he didn't need inspiration; he was just very good at writing music. Where Mahler was trying to come to terms with the meaning of life and death, Strauss at least claimed that he simply set out to write a piece of music.
I share Mahler's disbelief when I hear some of the exquisite themes in Strauss' Ariadne auf Naxos, for example. The simple chorus "Tone, Tone, Susse Stimmen" (Sounds, sweet voices) intoned by the Ariadne Muses sounds like Strauss joining with Mahler in an admiration of how musical sounds and words can bewitch us, as Strauss puts it. But of course that is just me--it's all subjective. They're just musical notes. (That's what Strauss and I tell ourselves.)
Der Rosenkavalier also has some deliciously "dripping with syrup" themes and others that are ethereal. In the "presentation of the rose" scene, the singers describe it as beauty "almost too strong to be endured."
If you can't imagine enjoying opera, I still hope someday you might give it a chance. Mahler earned his living doing a better job of conducting opera than anyone previously. He strove to bring out the best of what he thought the composer intended, and I think he may have even improved on what they had done.