DH hammers on Nott M9th

[mahler09]

I'm a clarinetist myself but haven't heard Ms. Kam's version.
When it comes down to it though, we all are going to have different opinions.  This conversation could go on forever!

[Nathaniel]

I'll tell her your thoughts.

I think Ms. Kam sucks! By that, I mean it sounds as though she's sucking on her reed. 

[Dave H]

Also worth mentioning: sometimes critics agree completely, and/or arrive at the same conclusions in their own different ways. This actually happens rather more frequently than you might suppose:

http://www.classicstodayfrance.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=3577

Best,

Dave H

[Nathaniel]

Here she is (sorry for the blah-blah over the music)

http://www.ardmediathek.de/ard/servlet/content/3517136?documentId=3051824

I'm a clarinetist myself but haven't heard Ms. Kam's version.
When it comes down to it though, we all are going to have different opinions.  This conversation could go on forever!

[barry guerrero]

"I'll tell her your thoughts"

Just tell her that I'm looking forward to new recordings of clarinet sonatas by Magnard and Rubbra. Persichetti and Linstead would be most welcome too (by somebody).

[Nathaniel]

Of course. I was just kiddin' anyway. But to be honest with you, the technical lingo doesn't mean anything to me. That's why I hardly ever read notes, or reviews. That's why Huss, the Frenchman, appeals to me I guess (he calls Sharon Kam "classy", admires her "great flexibility", "range of shades" and total lack of "gueulard" -- how to translate gueulard??). I suppose some suck, some blow and some puff. If she sucks and it works, that's fine with me. It's like saying that Louis Armstrong is "throaty". It works? That's all that matters. The only thing that is always a complete turn off for me is "fake" playing (or singing or conducting).
Regards, Nathaniel

"I'll tell her your thoughts"

Just tell her that I'm looking forward to new recordings of clarinet sonatas by Magnard and Rubbra. Persichetti and Linstead would be most welcome too (by somebody).

[John Kim]

Let’s face it, all reviews are a combination of fact and opinion – regardless of how detailed one writes a review.  In an 80+ minute Mahler symphony, you can ALWAYS find several factual items about which to complain.  The opinion part comes into play when the reviewer determines how much of a detriment those factual faults are to the overall performance of the symphony, and whether to mention those faults as part of a short review. 
As an example, I share many peoples’ enthusiasm for the Fischer M2.  If I wrote a review I could rightfully complain about the recessed trumpets in the March of the Souls Section.  I could probably point out one or two other factual deficiencies (i.e. if I had listened to it recently).  However, those deficiencies pale in comparison to the overall performance and my overall enjoyment.  Conversely, in Lennie’s NYPO Sony M2 the cymbals are basically absent from the March of the Souls section (the cymbals in my mind symbolize the whipping of the marching souls), which detracts enough from my overall enjoyment of the symphony to keep me from recommending it.  So my point is that I can factually demonstrate a fault with the March of the Souls section in either performance and in a short review, I would probably stress the deficiency in the Lennie/NYPO.  Conversely, I would probably focus on all of the positives in the Fischer one and ignore any mention of the recessed trumpets. 

I probably agree with DH’s “opinions” (or ratings) more than those of most other reviewers.  When DH puts detailed criticisms in his reviews, I can generally go back and hear exactly what he is criticizing.  However, I may differ in terms of how much those mentioned items detract from my overall enjoyment of the performances.  I’ll use the Rattle/BPO M9 final seconds of the ending as another example.  DH was very turned off by the fact that the cellos died out after the violins, which gave the ending a totally different meaning to him.  Someone else may hear the same thing but react completely differently. 

Right you are!!!

I've always found that in EVERY recording/concert there are ups and downs both musically (performance) and technically (sound). But as Scott put, whether you give thumbs up or down ultimately depends on what you're looking for, what you cannot tolerate, and eventually which aspects of the recording/concert outweigh or wear down the others. In the case of the Nott M9th, I already said I have a concern about the sound quality in I. but it didn't matter much because I liked all the other elements so much. And I gave my thumbs up. Let's face it. This recording is VERY faithful to the score as far as I know (has there been a version that captures as many details as this one?), and objectively speaking it deserves more than 6 or 7 rating. Ditto the Gilbert M9th. But the way we perceived each recording came out very differently because of the reason Scott has carefully elaborated on.

John,

[mahler09]

I couldn't really tell because of the German talking over the music unfortunately, but what I heard sounded good.  My stand partner at town band enjoys her playing and has lent me some of her CD's in the past.  Sabine Meyer is one of my favorite clarinetists but she plays on the Oehler system. 

Also, "sucking" isn't very clear; what do you mean exactly? 

[barry guerrero]

"Sucking isn't very clear; what do mean exactly?"

Think of whistling. Many people can whistle while blowing out air, or they can whistle while sucking in air. I happen to whistle better while sucking in air (that part IS true). The sucking technique works on the complete clarinet family, with the exception of the Eb contra-alto clarinet. It also works on Cor Anglais; Heckelphone (bass oboe), Sarrousaphone (but not Sousaphone - that's entirely different), and some French makes of the bassoon. In the brass family, "sucking" is more a manner of expression. For example, "that new third horn they hired sure sucks - also not great looking either". However, the sucking technique does seem to work for some trumpet players. Here's a photo of sucking in action.






Here's a photo of sucking in the other sense of the word

[sperlsco]

Here's a photo of sucking in the other sense of the word

. LOL, that couldn't have been any more perfect.  The picture was just below the scroll line, so I could see the above comment but had to hit the page down button to see the picture. Thanks for the good laugh.

[barry guerrero]

I'm getting my sexist pig-dog on here. I think I'd gladly pay Ms. Williamson's monthly bill for clarinet reeds. Maybe for those pumps too.

http://www.sarah-williamson.co.uk/gallery.php

[Freddy van Maurik]

LOL   Agreed, Barry!

I love where this thread is going... Scott, Maybe it's time to put a lock on this one, before things get out of hand

[Leo K]

I listened to the Nott M9 again last night and it still made an impact...I think this performance has to be heard numerous times to hear it's secrets...

I was comparing the Nott with the new Maazel M9 and I was surprised to find the Nott more rewarding in terms of emotional effect...I still love the Maazel for the virtuosity but Nott's M9 highlights those devastating contrasts between power and gentleness, especially in the 1st movement.  Somehow Nott really gets those contrasts across.  Rest assured the "vehemence" is there in spades.  I also hear huge timpani fanfares and each climax is powerful and shattering.  I swear I hear it!  (Must be my subjectivity running rampant! )  Actually I think Mr. Hurwitz's review was fair and honest. 

On my relisten last night I didn't think the sonics were troublesome at all.  The lows are rich and the highs didn't hurt my ear like the Gilbert BIS release does.  I'm going to relisten to the Gilbert today.  Perhaps this one has grown in my inner ear as well.  

I have to agree with John that this is one of the great M9's.

--Todd

[John Kim]

Leo,

Thanks for the heads up!!

The main reason I rate this recording so highly is that whether intentional or not Nott seems to have gathered all the elements of great recordings - Lenny, Chailly, Levine, and even Karajan - and put them across with his personal stamp. You mentioned the prominent timpani. What about the tam tam at the main climax? Has there been a recording that caught it (and the timpani) as vividly and powerfully as this one? What about the mighty brass at the same spot uttered twice with fff followed by ff marking? These are just a few examplesthat make Nott's M9th so extraordinary.

I'll stop here, otherwise it will bring on .....

John,

[Leo K]

Leo,

Thanks for the heads up!!

The main reason I rate this recording so highly is that whether intentional or not Nott seems to have gathered all the elements of great recordings - Lenny, Chailly, Levine, and even Karajan - and put them across with his personal stamp. You mentioned the prominent timpani. What about the tam tam at the main climax? Has there been a recording that caught it (and the timpani) as vividly and powerfully as this one? What about the mighty brass at the same spot uttered twice with fff followed by ff marking? These are just a few examplesthat make Nott's M9th so extraordinary.

I'll stop here, otherwise it will bring on .....

John,

John,

You are right one about the 3rd climax in I.  The tam tam, timpani, and lower brass are all here in their glory!  I love hearing that fff to ff too...it is so clear and devastating in ferocity.

--Todd