Author Topic: Salonen M9 on Signum  (Read 13928 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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Salonen M9 on Signum
« on: July 10, 2010, 12:24:17 AM »
I hate to start yet another Mahler 9 thread, but here goes. I got a chance to hear the Salonen/Philharmonia M9, and it's really quite good for a fast performance. It's hard to believe that this is the Philharmonia Orch., because they sound much more alert and intense than usually do in Mahler. There's even a lot of bass in the recording, and the Philharmonia generally has very weak double basses. I usually can't hear their tuba player worth a darn either, but he's all over this recording. Good stuff! There's one thing that's kind of weird, and that's regarding the big tam-tam smash at the (anti)climax of the first movement. Instead of the giving it a fortissimo whack, they do a gong roll instead. It sounds kind of weird because at the point where they stop rolling, it sounds just like somebody turned off a tap of running water. Worse: it sounds like when your TV is on a station that has nothing but white noise, and then you suddenly change the channel. It's kind of funny, actually. But the rest is pretty good.

Offline Russ Smiley

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2010, 05:47:36 AM »
I have this recording.  It took listening a few times through to decide it was a keeper.  Overall the timings are similar to Mund/Kyoto, a less-known version that I admire, but they are different.  In Salonen's first movement, I noticed the tam-tam effect you mentioned.   Overall I found that movement to be more direct'/angular' than I'm accustomed to: the abrupt ending to that roll exemplifies that.  Also, in the flute and horn duet, the horn is mighty bold, but (I know the markings) is that 'correct'?  I've decided that, for that first movement, it is less a performance of resignation but maybe more of detached retrospect.   I think the 30 extra seconds in the Mund/KSO performance of that first movement afford more time for some nostalgia.  I'm listening to Giulini/CSO at the moment, and it certainly has more emotional ebb and flow - and takes 20% longer to do it!  Similarly, Salonen's second movement has less rustic sarcasm than I find in other performances.  The third movement is suitably buoyant, though I think it could use a tad more schizophrenia.  Like the first movement, the Adagio is more direct than some and doesn't linger over details that I appreciate in others (e.g. Bertini, Giulini, etc.)  In summary, I thought it really well played and with a general directness that I think I should revisit.
Russ Smiley

Offline Leo K

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2010, 02:49:02 PM »
I hate to start yet another Mahler 9 thread, but here goes. I got a chance to hear the Salonen/Philharmonia M9, and it's really quite good for a fast performance. It's hard to believe that this is the Philharmonia Orch., because they sound much more alert and intense than usually do in Mahler. There's even a lot of bass in the recording, and the Philharmonia generally has very weak double basses. I usually can't hear their tuba player worth a darn either, but he's all over this recording. Good stuff! There's one thing that's kind of weird, and that's regarding the big tam-tam smash at the (anti)climax of the first movement. Instead of the giving it a fortissimo whack, they do a gong roll instead. It sounds kind of weird because at the point where they stop rolling, it sounds just like somebody turned off a tap of running water. Worse: it sounds like when your TV is on a station that has nothing but white noise, and then you suddenly change the channel. It's kind of funny, actually. But the rest is pretty good.

That sounds very intriging...I have to hear this gong effect. 

The Royal Philharmonic sounds fantastic on Gatti's M4 recording too, with heavy bass, characterful windwoods and brass.   


--Todd

Offline GL

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2010, 07:38:40 PM »
Philharmonia's strings did not seem to me up to their tasks, especially during the Finale. I still prefer Salonen's Mahler recorded in L. A.

L.

Offline sperlsco

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 04:48:36 PM »
I listened to this performance throughout the weekend.  I think that it is a good version of a "fast" M9.  I agree that the tam-tam spot mentioned by Barry sounds a bit strange.  It sounds like they gave a Paiste tam-tam a good whack and let it ring on for quite a while, but then stopped it in a VERY noticeable fashion.  Strange indeed!

The one thing that bothers me throughout the entire performance is that the cymbals barely have any presence.  That aspect really dulls the impact of certain climaxes.  Also, the horns play very well but are overly-forward in certain sections.  Perhaps they are closely miked.  As Barry said, it was nice to hear some low-end to this orchestra -- Bass, Trombones, and Tuba all sound very good. 
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 04:51:14 PM by sperlsco »
Scott

Offline John Kim

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 10:47:23 PM »
Scott,

I don't have the recording yet, but I think the way you described the performance fits other Philharmonia/M9 recordings as well - Sinopoli, Zander, Sanderling. The strange sounding tam tam, the loud horns, weak cymbal, etc.

John,

Offline John Kim

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2010, 05:54:13 PM »
Speaking of the Phiharmonia tam tam, I think this has always been the way it was played in ALL of Philharmonia/M9th recordings. Listen to Klemperer, Sanderling, and Zander, and you will find out what I mean.

I will go out to get the Salonen today ;D :D.

John,

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2010, 11:47:20 PM »
Yep, it's like that on all of those. It seems most exaggerated on this one: as though somebody stuck a microphone up to a running tap of water (or white noise on your TV), and then suddenly turned it off. It's kind of funny.

Offline John Kim

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2010, 06:45:34 AM »
I am told that the magazine CLASSICA, in May 2010, gave the following ranking in a blind test about the 9° symphony/Mahler :

1. Sinopoli/Philharmonia (1993 DG)
2. Nott/Bamberg (2009 Tudor)
3. Haitink/Concertgebouw (1969 Philips)
4. Karajan/Berlin (1979/80 DG)
5. Bernstein/Berlin (live 1979 DG)
6. Sanderling/Berliner SO (1979 Berlin Classics)
7. Boulez/Chicago (1995 DG)
8. Abbado/Vienna (live 1987 DG)

It's interesting that they included Abbado's earlier version with VPO but not the BPO version. As for Karajan, they picked the analogue edition over the more famous digital one from 1982.

John,

Offline GL

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2010, 09:29:40 AM »
I am told that the magazine CLASSICA, in May 2010, gave the following ranking in a blind test about the 9° symphony/Mahler :

1. Sinopoli/Philharmonia (1993 DG)
2. Nott/Bamberg (2009 Tudor)
3. Haitink/Concertgebouw (1969 Philips)
4. Karajan/Berlin (1979/80 DG)
5. Bernstein/Berlin (live 1979 DG)
6. Sanderling/Berliner SO (1979 Berlin Classics)
7. Boulez/Chicago (1995 DG)
8. Abbado/Vienna (live 1987 DG)

It's interesting that they included Abbado's earlier version with VPO but not the BPO version. As for Karajan, they picked the analogue edition over the more famous digital one from 1982.

John,

I wonder how much ignorance of the Mahler discography and bad criticism could lead to the misunderstanding of Mahler's music and, in general, to bad taste.

Luca


Offline Leo K

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2010, 03:35:14 PM »
I am told that the magazine CLASSICA, in May 2010, gave the following ranking in a blind test about the 9° symphony/Mahler :

1. Sinopoli/Philharmonia (1993 DG)
2. Nott/Bamberg (2009 Tudor)
3. Haitink/Concertgebouw (1969 Philips)
4. Karajan/Berlin (1979/80 DG)
5. Bernstein/Berlin (live 1979 DG)
6. Sanderling/Berliner SO (1979 Berlin Classics)
7. Boulez/Chicago (1995 DG)
8. Abbado/Vienna (live 1987 DG)

It's interesting that they included Abbado's earlier version with VPO but not the BPO version. As for Karajan, they picked the analogue edition over the more famous digital one from 1982.

John,

It's nice to see Nott on this list.  




--Todd
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 04:47:25 PM by Leo K »

Offline GL

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2010, 06:48:53 PM »

It's nice to see Nott on this list.  


--Todd

Well, if I were Nott, I would not be flattered to be considered worse than Philharmonia/Sinopoli...  ;D Sinopoli did far better with the Staatskapelle Dresden. I suspect that the guys that wrote this list do not even know it.

L.

Offline John Kim

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2010, 07:58:56 PM »
It's French critics who gave this list.

I find it rather odd but also tasteful ;D!

I like it that both Abbado and Sinopoli made the list. To be sure, I like Sinopoli's DG recording very much; it's full of individualistic touches that are fascinating. If you don't like this kind of treat your ears my be turned off, but it works just fine for me.

John,

Offline Leo K

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2010, 08:37:28 PM »

It's nice to see Nott on this list.  


--Todd

Well, if I were Nott, I would not be flattered to be considered worse than Philharmonia/Sinopoli...  ;D Sinopoli did far better with the Staatskapelle Dresden. I suspect that the guys that wrote this list do not even know it.

L.

I haven't heard the Philharmonia/Sinopoli but I like Sinopoli's Staatskapelle Dresden recording...it's a strange but compelling M9!

I'm also glad to see Abbado's VPO M9 on here...the first M9 I ever heard complete. I still like it a lot, especially the strings.


--Todd

Offline John Kim

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2010, 09:34:53 PM »
Todd,

I know there are folks who hate the Sinopoli and Abbado. But hey, isn't it nice to have such alternative but compelling versions available? I listened to the Abbado last night and it sounded just great. In some ways, I prefer Abbado's Viennese recording over the BPO one.

John,

 

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