Upcoming performance of M10 in the Barshai edition

[TomR]

The adventurous community orchestra Redwood Symphony (located in the SF Bay Area) is doing the Barshai completion of M10 on June 12. I am an infrequent visitor to this site, but a casual search on "Barshai" shows that there is a lot of anti-Barshai sentiment and preference for other completions. I would bet that there is a thread here that discusses the merits or lack thereof of each version, but I did not find the search engine all that helpful in looking for it - is there one? Thanks.

[Zoltan]

Adventurous indeed! From what I understand, the music to be played needs a *lot* of work; there are some very high trumpet notes, and the string writing is not easy.

Unfortunately, I haven't heard the other versions yet only Cooke and Barshai (which is why I'm anxiously awaiting the Carpenter version from Zinman/Tonhalle Zürich!), so my opinions carries less weight. Nonetheless, while I question some of the instrumental choices (tom-toms?) and harmonic choices, it does add more to the skeleton of music that Cooke's work established (exactly with that goal). I do enjoy it a lot and would be interested to hear what other conductors do with the Barshai edition.

[barry guerrero]

I was a regular member of the Redwood Symphony for over 10 years. Unfortunately, time, money, and life circumstances prohibit me from participating with them these days. I'd like to at least hear the concert. In general, I prefer both the Carpenter and Samale/Mazzuca versions to the other ones, but - quite obviously - I welcome live performances of ANY of the existing versions.

I played percussion in the R.S.O.'s performance of Cooke III, many years ago, with some of my suggestions and additions to the percussion parts thrown in. In fact, I've played every major work by Mahler with the R.S.O., with the exception of "Das Klagende Lied" and M8 (and I almost played the 8th with them). Several Mahler symphonies I've played numerous times, both as a tuba player and percussionist. During my time, the best Mahler performance we gave was M3 at San Mateo High School.

Good for Eric (Kujawski) for going on the attack. Here's a link:

http://www.redwoodsymphony.org/concerts/2009-10/season2009.html

Barry

[TomR]

Are you guys telling me there is NO thread on this site discussing the merits of each completion?

[barry guerrero]

Tom,

We've certainly have had plenty of conversations before. I can't tell you the easiest way to try to dig them up. I'm sure we could start this whole issue up, all over again. Unfortunately, I just don't have tons of time to dedicate to the site these days. In fact, where I stay four nights per week, I don't even have a computer there. But hey, I'm ready to dig in if others are. However, having at least a copy of Cooke II or Cooke III makes it a lot easier to discuss specific details.

[Leo K]

Here are some threads Tom, some of my favorites:

http://gustavmahlerboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=717.0

http://gustavmahlerboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=11.0

http://gustavmahlerboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=597.0

http://gustavmahlerboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=587.0

Mahler's 10th is worth the effort to keep rebirthing...on a personal note Mahler composed enough for me to feel this is possibly my favorite work of his, even in it's unfinished state...I am thankful he got as far as he did.

For me, the problem points, such as the Scherzo's, are very facsinating, because the music suggests countless sound worlds...among the various editions, I like what S/M and Carpenter do to make the scherzo's jump with detail...granted, like Barry says, many sections are over or under orchestrated and this can be beautifully frusterating, for lack of a better description.

Now that I think about it, I recall liking what Mazetti and Wheeler do with the Scherzo's as well...the thin texture suggest more than what is there sometimes, which can be good in certain sections, the trios for an example...I'm actually pretty happy with how the trios are orchestrated in all the editions, but more can be done.

--Todd

[barry guerrero]

The problem with the Barshai version - and this is only an opinion! - is that Barshai has loaded the score up with lots of exotic instrumentation and excess filigree, but without addressing what I feel to be the major issues about the work, in general. To me, he has focused on the minutiae of the trees without looking at the overall forest. Some feel that Carpenter has done too much free composing in the course of his M10 project, but his version simply feels and sounds more completed than most of the others. Granted, Carpenter goes too far in bringing late Mahler into the more overtly expressionistic sound-world of Alban Berg's "Three Pieces" and "Wozzeck". But it's believable as a finished Mahler/Carpenter work.

Samale/Mazzuca are also more overtly expressionistic, but without sounding so much like Berg. This is particularly true in the latter half of the second scherzo, where Mahler's sudden outbursts just explode with terror. S/M also have the strongest ending to the first scherzo - a major weakness of that movement in general - and the best ideas regarding the last 10 minutes or so of the finale. Those are both major issues about the work as it stands now. Again, these are just opinions.