M10 Slatkin/St.LSO/RCA revisted

[Leo K]

Other night of listening to M10's.  I was quite surprised on hearing this Slatkin M10 after revisting the Mazetti II and Wheeler/Olson accounts last night, which I found rather dissapointing on relistening...quite underwhelming.

BUT the Mazzetti I completion as delivered by Slatkin knocked my head off...what a deeply thoughtful and profound reading, and on top of this I believe (for my taste) that Mazzetti had his completion right the first time at bat.  The details are balanced quite well, with plenty of atmosphere and space, but not under orchestrated.  I think his scherzo's and finale are very accomplished, right after Cook and Samale/Mazzuca.  Wonderful use of percussion, harps and brass overall.  Breathtaking.

Mazzetti's orchestration may not always ring truly Mahlerian...but he's pretty darn close to my ear...especially in the 1st Scherzo and Finale.  In the finale, I was taken to Mahlerian hieghts I've not experienced in a long time...I am flabbergasted at the wonderful perfomance of the finale.

Therefore, I have a new top M10...the Mazzetti/Slatkin  marriage.  Followed by the Cooke/Wigglesworth and Cooke/Rattle (BPO)...and the Carpenter/Litton and Samale & Mazzuca/Sieghart recordings.


--Todd

[barry guerrero]

Todd,

I've long argued that Slatkin's recording of Mazzetti I is actually very good. And I like Mazzetti's first version much more than his revised version, as recorded on Telarc. I'm glad that you like it too. I can't say that I like it better than Carpenter/Litton/Delos, but I like it none the less. Wheeler and Barshai are the most disappointing to me. Still, I appreciate anyone's effort on this magnificent work.

Barry

[Leo K]

Yeah, and what a life affirming symphony this is...actually, the more I listen to this over the years, the more it becomes my favorite Mahler of all, despite the unfinished score.

Listening to this recording tonight put my mind in a grand space...and it's been so long since a performance did this to my soul.  This is my favorite kind of Mahlerian effect...the key to opening the mind to dreams, memories, memories of dreams...life on rewind and forward all at once...the M10 in particular has always had this effect in all its various forms.

I also love the Litton/Carpenter...and I think I'm going to order the SACD Sieghart soon...I've only heard the CD layer, but it's another beautiful sounding recording.

Barry, I raise my glass, to a masterpiece in all its various forms...cheers all around.  "chink"

--Todd

[Don]

Mahler 10 a masterpiece... yes! and I raise my glass to this magnificent creation as well, even at 6:30 in the AM.

Mazzetti I, sadly no.

Although Slatkin plays the devil out of it,  Mazzetti wisely withdrew this version with all the wild contrapuntal lines and garish over orchestration. He assisted Olsen with the Wheeler performances and then publicly stated that Wheeler "embodies the most authentic-sounding and unique realization of Mahler's last will and testament". He then does version # 2 that is a little less frenetic but certainly not as clear and spare as Wheeler. I am not a big fan of either Mazzetti version, but do share the opinion that Slatkin is a great Mahler 10 conductor and would love for him to do more. Rumor had it at one time that he was going to do his own version. Mazzetti did one thing very well, assigning the rising motif at the beginning of the finale to string bass and harp rather than tuba as in Cooke. The recording of Mazzetti II eliminated the second drum stroke which I prefer, but I am not sure if that is Lopez-Cobos' decision or Mazzetti.

It so comes down to how you view the work in Mahler's cannon. If you think, as I do (and I know it is mere speculation) that Mahler with the 10th was going in a new direction, then the work would be leaner, less orchestrated than previous works.

Regardless, it is one of Mahler's greatest works, one of the 20th century's great symphonies and one work I could not live without.

[Leo K]

Well said Don...thanks for your thoughts 

Yes, I underrated Slatkin as a Mahler conducter...well, I've never heard his M2...and it had been years since I heard this M10 release.  On returning to this account, I didn't think it was overdone with contrapuntal lines (compare to the Carpenter, which has more but still works when considered as a whole), and the orchestration sounded much more even than the Wheeler and Mazzetti's 2nd edition.  Wheeler's is intereresting, but we still need a better played performance of his edition...yet even with a better performance, I feel his score just doesn't catch the fire the other more fully elaborated editions of the score pocess (in a word, it can be boring in spots). That said, I wouldn't want to be without the Wheeler either...in certains moods I do like it!
 

--Todd

[Leo K]

Actually, I would like Slatkin to tackle the Wheeler...now that would be very cool! 


--Todd

[sbugala]

I like the Slatkin M10.  It was supposed to have been taken from live performances, but I was present at a concert, and I'm not convinced.  The NPR concert seemed more exciting, but obviously, I'm basing this on distant memories.  Still, if anyone ever had a burn of THAT concert, I'd sure like to compare the two.

[barry guerrero]

Sorry to be a contrary-ian, but on the whole, the Wheeler version really is not very good - not at at all idiomatic sounding of Mahler; especially late Mahler. In the program notes, Olson admits that there were a lot of issues with the score, right up to the very last moment before each morning's recording session. As with any version, there are few a good and original ideas sprinkled about, here and there. But taken as a whole, it's full of problems; not least of which - Wheeler coming from a British brass band background - is a curious lack of bass throughout. I think it's better to move on.

In my opinion, we need versions that are based on Cooke I or II (but with the latest corrections in regards to note mistakes), but with fuller bass lines, more idiomatic woodwind writing, and with somewhat augmented yet idiomatic sounding percussion detail (more idiomatic reinforcement of major climaxes in the later movements). That's just one person's assessment of the situation - but a somewhat informed one.

Barry

[Don]

Wheeler is the most spare and "conservative" of the lot. Olson. as you mentioned, was fully aware of the limitations of the completion but felt strongly that the version needed to be heard. He also played it and recorded it at the annual MahlerFest concerts in Boulder, CO in 1997. A recording of that performance is available through the MahlerFest site. It is not substantially different from the Naxos recording.

In its spareness, one can see the skeleton of the work and its frame, making it of use, but it is not my preferred version.

[sperlsco]

Mazzetti...publicly stated that Wheeler "embodies the most authentic-sounding and unique realization of Mahler's last will and testament".

This statement (assuming it is true) is enough to make me doubt Mazzetti's sanity.   

I'm with Barry on this:  Wheeler's is the least convincing of the M10 versions.  It does absolutely nothing for me, probably because it seems to attempt so little and, as such, is not interesting.  I get a little bit more out of Barshai and either of the Mazzetti's.  I'd probably rate S-M at a slightly higher level still.  As for Cooke, my main complaint is that is does not go far enough, but it is highly enjoyable and satisfying.  Carpenter sounds like a real completion to me, though some of the orchestration is too much and/or non-Mahlerian.  Still, I find Litton/Carpenter to be just about completely satisfying. 

[Don]

The Mazzetti quote is from the notes to the Colorado MahlerFest Recording of the Wheeler version. Tony Duggan also quotes it on Music Web in a review of the Carpenter version. I was not there, so I can not say 10,000% sure he said it.