M1 and M2

[BeethovensQuill]

Ive recently introduced someone i know into Mahler, he isnt completely new to classical but he's never properly listened to it and when i played him a selection of works by various composers he decided that Mahler was where he wanted to start.  He got the same Mahler 1 abbado from 1991 and Kubelik in 2 that i favoured back in December (that was before i heard the new Paavo Jarvi M2 which has blown me away and made me feel like i did when i was 1st getting into it).  Also like i did he wants to experience Mahler in chronological order which i think is the greatest way to do it.   What about everyone else was it chronological or non-chronological?

He recently sent me an email to say he listened to M1 and M2 back to back one night, he has listened to these works a couple of times before but he said that he felt M1 seemed to have more dramatic moments than M2.  This almost made me fall of my chair but obviously i didnt reply as such, i just said that it would be interesting to hear what he says when he knows every second of M2. 

I just thought afterwards well maybe its something for discussion and that i shouldnt just dismiss it due to him being new to the pieces, i definitely think M1 is the most original 1st symphony ever written and this article is an interesting read http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/aug/19/mahler-first-symphony-claudio-abbado  For me i immediately took to M2 but M1 took much longer to get into, both my 1st M1 and M2 were the Kubelik recordings, and i just never got into Kubelik in M1 but as soon as i heard the abbado i thought thats what ive been missing. Has anyone else made someone into a new Mahlerian but they have maybe said something about the works that seemed out of sync when compared with years of listening?

[Damfino]

Interesting that you never warmed to the Kubelik M1 as it was for years the standard recommendation.

All my Mahler discovery has been non-chronological. I started with M9, the Bruno Walter recording with the Columbia SO. I liked the symphony, but did not pursue any new Mahler immediately.

Later, I got into M1. I think after that it was the 5th, then the 4th, and then the 2nd. I had multiple recordings of all those works before eventually learning to appreciate 3, 6 and 7. I now have multiple recordings of those three.

I still am not a big fan of M8, but I do have several recordings of it. Most recently I bought the live Gergiev on SACD, but have not had time to listen to it.

It is possible one gets into Mahler "out of order" because one may at first not like symphonies with singing, or "extra" movements. By far, I like M2 the best. I will probably get the new Jarvi recording of it. I'm not crazy about Kubelik's M2. I like the pacing, but I feel that the recording favors the orchestra a tad too much over the chorus. It's always a problem with choral works to record in such a way that one hears all one is supposed to hear without slighting one section over the other.

[BeethovensQuill]

I understand what you said about the Kubelik M2 and it being more towards the orchestra as to my ears they play like their lives depend on it, which i found an exciting listen, and like what you said i love the pacing of it aswell.  I do very much enjoy Edith Mathis and Norma Procter's vocals, they are really ethereal in that recording.  But now its Jarvi in M2 for me and he isnt as fast as Kubelik but it really isnt noticeable the music has a great forward momentum and it nevers gives the impression of grinding slowly to a halt like i feel some recordings do such as Fischer's.  The sound is really some of the best sonics ive heard aswell, ofcourse im sure someone elses opinion wil be different.  Music wouldnt music without it.

I know the Kubelik M1 was the standard, but i always felt that it was rushed in the 1st movement, and i was being forced quickly down the country road rather than enjoying the nature around me.  Mahler marks the score Langsam, schleppend (slowly dragging), wie ein naturlaut (as if spoken by nature),  so that Abbado 1991 recording really works for me in that sense of taking time to view nature before the main melody comes in to take us further on our journey.  For me its one of the great opening statements in symphonic music, its like entering a new world and viewing it for the 1st time.   But again everyone has different opinions on this. 

[waderice]

Ive recently introduced someone i know into Mahler, he isnt completely new to classical but he's never properly listened to it and when i played him a selection of works by various composers he decided that Mahler was where he wanted to start.  He got the same Mahler 1 abbado from 1991 and Kubelik in 2 that i favoured back in December (that was before i heard the new Paavo Jarvi M2 which has blown me away and made me feel like i did when i was 1st getting into it).  Also like i did he wants to experience Mahler in chronological order which i think is the greatest way to do it.   What about everyone else was it chronological or non-chronological?

He recently sent me an email to say he listened to M1 and M2 back to back one night, he has listened to these works a couple of times before but he said that he felt M1 seemed to have more dramatic moments than M2.  This almost made me fall of my chair but obviously i didnt reply as such, i just said that it would be interesting to hear what he says when he knows every second of M2. 

I just thought afterwards well maybe its something for discussion and that i shouldnt just dismiss it due to him being new to the pieces, i definitely think M1 is the most original 1st symphony ever written and this article is an interesting read http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/aug/19/mahler-first-symphony-claudio-abbado  For me i immediately took to M2 but M1 took much longer to get into, both my 1st M1 and M2 were the Kubelik recordings, and i just never got into Kubelik in M1 but as soon as i heard the abbado i thought thats what ive been missing. Has anyone else made someone into a new Mahlerian but they have maybe said something about the works that seemed out of sync when compared with years of listening?

Everyone comes to Mahler differently.  Mahler wasn't the first composer that I latched to.  Rather, it was Richard Strauss, whose Also sprach Zarathustra from the film "2001" that introduced me first to classical music, in 1968.  I didn't discover Mahler until a year or so later when I took a music appreciation class in college.  That course had a recorded listening program and guide that played a snippet of M8 (Bernstein/LSO), and the fact that the program called M8 "The Symphony of a Thousand" intrigued me.  I got it out of the college library, but didn't take to the work immediately, as it was too deep at that time for my developing musical ears.  I wanted to hear more Mahler, so I then checked out M3 with Haitink/Concertgebouw, then M2 with Bernstein/NYPO on Columbia.  It was M2 that really got me onto Mahler.  I bought a Mahler symphony here and there and taped others on cassettes on my limited student budget.  It's now 40 years later, and a lot of water has now come over the Mahler "dam".

Wade

[techniquest]

My own experience is of getting into all my favourite composer's symphonies in the wrong order! For both Shostakovich and Prokofiev I started with the most popular - the 5th, however with Shostakovich I then lept into the 11th, 8th and 12th closely followed by the 4th! With Prokofiev I went backwards and followed the 5th with the 3rd and 2nd!
My first experience of hearing Mahler was being blown away having accidently caught the end of the 2nd on the radio when I was about 13 years old. So it was with the 2nd that I started my lifelong Mahler trek by buying the CBS/ Bernstein recording. I went backwards to No.1 with the old Delogu / LPO recording on Classics for Pleasure (I still have it), and dallied occasionally with library copies of the 3rd (Horenstein) and 8th (Wyn Morris). Then, in the mid-80's I bought the 6th and 7th which were released by Classics for Pleasure as double albums. These were old recordings, but they were great: Klemperer (7th) and Barbirolli (6th).
All this time I hadn't got into the most popular Mahler (4th & 5th). To be honest I still can't appreciate the 5th other than the opening and the adagietto; I prefer the 4th to have a treble rather than a soprano and I have lost the appreciation that I used to have for the 7th. But recently it's the 3rd has that has taken over my listening life! It has taken me over 30 years to really know and understand it and it is simply marvelous. However the 2nd is, and will always be, the most wonderful symphony for me. I have so many recordings - commercial, broadcast, podcast - vinyl, CD, DVD, mp3...I don't have a favourite recording really as I haven't heard one that does everything just as I would like it. Good - that's the excuse I have to keep collecting, keep searching and keep enjoying. There are some that get very close - the new Tennstedt / LPO release is superb, as is the San Francisco / Blomstedt; and there's a broadcast by the Sao Paulo SO under John Neschling which is also excellent.

[mahler09]

I saw M1 at a concert last May and it was spectacular.  I had never even heard of Mahler's name before the concert (sad to think!) but afterward was eager to listen to more.  I was able to check out the Chailly & RCO box set from my library.  At first, I spent a lot of time with the first symphony but then progressed.  I didn't go in order and specifically didn't listen to M2 and M8 until the end because they are so well known.  I wanted to get a taste for it all and not have to compare everything I listened to a specific work (also before I realized that all of Mahler's works are great).  However, I am happy to have done it this way because it allowed me to form my opinions of pieces.  I became interested in his song cycles a little later on, once I had become interested in Mahler's life and such. 

As for introducing others to Mahler... I think it is certainly helps if the person has an interest on their own at first as your friend did.  I talk about him all the time and have played some of his music to friends of mine and they haven't quite got it...yet (?).  If anybody had advice on how to show Mahler's music to others, by all means share it!

[barry guerrero]

"Everyone comes to Mahler differently"

Genau. Exactly.

[BeethovensQuill]

Its interesting reading how people got started with Mahler

Here is a webiste with lots of conductor interviews on the same theme http://mahler.universaledition.com/

Lots of intersting things said by Pappano, Barenboim(who really doesnt like Bernstein), Zinman to name a few