Meine Zeit wird kommen

[barry guerrero]

I love it, and I think it's far closer to the truth than many are willing to admit.

[mahler09]

If it's out of print, are there still old copies floating around or on you tube?  Unfortunately I just checked my library system and they don't seem to have a copy.  There must be some news about a reissue online...

[Zoltan]

The line "I cannot marry you. I can only marry a beautiful woman." is apparently something that we know from Alma

Oh, Zoltan, that´s true, but  obviously you misunderstood, that in the film Natalie says shortly before Almas words, read by another female voice: "Alma Mahler rumoured the story like this:".

Indeed! I wasn't in the room for a minute and came back when I heard Natalie's voice and saw the moment played out on screen.

As you can see from the responses here, I'm very grateful for this documentation since Natalie was writing up Gustav's words, which allows us to see what went through in his mind (as far is he himself could know) while writing his music. A unique angle which was lost to (or got corrupted by) Alma, from what I know.

In the film, one can feel how much of the tension relies on the expression of Natalie's character as the unrequited love looms over the scenes. Is it something that Natalie described in her diaries as well, or is it only a general feeling through the use of certain words?

What I also learnt is her sad fate, in that she was arrested because of her anti-war sentiments and died 1921 (probably not in prison?).

I'm a member of the IGMG and if I could make it to the yearly assembly, perhaps one could initiate a research into the diaries. And de La Grange would certainly support such a research as well! But I'm not a musicologist ...

________________

If I had known that you're all so interested to see Russel's film as well, I could have recorded that too. It was just after the documentation. I saw the opening scene, which I found just too strange (the woman in the white cocoon being "born" -- Mahler's dreams), and since it was already past midnight, I didn't watch the rest.

[GL]

I love it, and I think it's far closer to the truth than many are willing to admit.

Indeed, Russell's movie is not biographically reliable, but it is close to the truth because it captures many sides of the spirit of Mahler's art.

A 2005 release (region free, no subtitles) should be still available in UK:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B0007D5GBS/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&qid=1278677532&sr=1-1&condition=all

L.

[GL]

The film is obviously "auf Deutsch"

hi there, as I am the filmmaker, I can tell you that Unitel classica will distribute the film worldwide and prepares an English version. A DVD will come out, I do not know yet when. Thanks for your posting. It´s always very interesting to read comments on films, you´ve made.

Very good, MeineZeit!
Keep us informed about this release, please.

Since you "lived" three years within Mahler's circle, would like to share your opinions about him, his friends, his art?

Thanks in advance!

____________________

Zoltan,

Natalie died in poverty but at least out of prison. During her last years he had also some mental problems. According to De La Grange, her nephew and only heir destroyed part of her mahleriana manuscripts. It would be interesting to know from MeineZeit something about the integrity of the daries she was allowed to consult.
I'm not sure De La Grange will allow musicologists to research among Natalie's papers. As far as I know from his epic (voll. 2,3,4 of the English version) Mahler biography and from other sources, he  has used previously unpublished part useful for the purposes of his work but he does not seem inclined to allow the publication of the full manuscript in order to protect the privacy of Natalie. Perhaps, the fact he allowed MeineZeit to read all the daries is a sign of a change of attitude, but, as I wrote, I can't take it for sure.
I just finished reading the latest issue (the 60th) of News about Mahler reserarch and I do not think N. Bauer-Lechner is among the priorities of the Gesellschaft.

Best regards,
Luca
 

[Zoltan]

I'm not sure De La Grange will allow musicologists to research among Natalie's papers. As far as I know from his epic (voll. 2,3,4 of the English version) Mahler biography and from other sources, he  has used previously unpublished part useful for the purposes of his work but he does not seem inclined to allow the publication of the full manuscript in order to protect the privacy of Natalie. Perhaps, the fact he allowed MeineZeit to read all the daries is a sign of a change of attitude, but, as I wrote, I can't take it for sure.

Hm, I'm not sure I'm understanding that. We're talking about even what Mahler ate, so in what way is Bauer-Lechner's privacy in danger?

I just finished reading the latest issue (the 60th) of News about Mahler reserarch and I do not think N. Bauer-Lechner is among the priorities of the Gesellschaft.

Hm, I have to check it, but I think #59 is the last I got ... Nevertheless, there's still a chance that a PhD work might be done about the topic which could sparkle interest. I know the IGMG hasn't got the money for bigger undertakings (as we can see how fast they are with printing the critical edition) ...

[GL]

I'm not sure De La Grange will allow musicologists to research among Natalie's papers. As far as I know from his epic (voll. 2,3,4 of the English version) Mahler biography and from other sources, he  has used previously unpublished part useful for the purposes of his work but he does not seem inclined to allow the publication of the full manuscript in order to protect the privacy of Natalie. Perhaps, the fact he allowed MeineZeit to read all the daries is a sign of a change of attitude, but, as I wrote, I can't take it for sure.

Hm, I'm not sure I'm understanding that. We're talking about even what Mahler ate, so in what way is Bauer-Lechner's privacy in danger?

I just finished reading the latest issue (the 60th) of News about Mahler research and I do not think N. Bauer-Lechner is among the priorities of the Gesellschaft.

Hm, I have to check it, but I think #59 is the last I got ... Nevertheless, there's still a chance that a PhD work might be done about the topic which could sparkle interest. I know the IGMG hasn't got the money for bigger undertakings (as we can see how fast they are with printing the critical edition) ...

Since the focus is on Mahler, he was not spared nothing (I'm thinking about the chapters of the biography dedicated to his marriage and to Alma's daries). With Bauer-Lechner, de La Grange's attitude is different: he reports all that she has to say about Mahler's life and works, avoiding all the passages concerning her feelings, her intimacy, her deep suffering. De La Grange seems to suggest that we know all that is possible to know about Mahler by Natalie and I'm inclined to trust him because he is a man of great integrity.
We see what he will have to say about Natalie when he first introduce her in the latest volume (#1) of the biography that should be release during the current Mahler Jubilee.

I received my copy of the #60 on July, 2. The first 3 articles are from the "Toblach Mahler Talks 2008: Mahler and the Sound of his Time" (among the others I found interesting the one of Knud Martner about a singer that was Mahler's fellow tenant in Prague and the one of Elisabeth Bauchhenss about Eugen Szenkar. The others, exception made for the article about the posthorn episode in the Third that I have still to read, seemed to me rather inconsistent).
We know that lack of money is the biggest problem of IGMG, and let me say that there are guys like Frank Fanning that work without remuneration and do great job (the Mahler concert calendar is a clear example of that). That said, I wonder why many people are making efforts in promoting vibrato free performances or the order of the movements of the Sixth. Do not get me wrong, these arguments are interesting, if not addressed by an ideological position that does not allow open-mindedness, but when lack of money is the biggest problem, why not be focused on releasing the Hamburg version of the First, the Schumann's and Beethoven's works retouched by Mahler, for example? Why not try to release some rare, unpublished recording of the society's archive (as it was suggested during a meeting a few years ago)?

Best regards,
Luca

[Zoltan]

Thank you Luca, now I understand what you mean by her privacy; I thought it could mean things relevant to Mahler.

Would the IGMG even get some of the money from the performances of the newly released scores? Isn't the editor the copyright holder?

[mahler09]

Even if her diaries contain personal information that would be wrong to announce to the world, one would hope that an abridged version could be made available (perhaps under La Grange?) without offending her privacy.  I have read a lot of Mahler's letters and (despite Alma's interference) it has given me a different view of Mahler the man, not just the musical deity he is often portrayed as today.  It may not be high on the IMGM's to do list but first hand documentation of Mahler needs to be preserved in some way. 

[waderice]

I don't see how a specific individual's privacy can be offended when they are no longer alive to react and seek redress/compensation for damages for the release of confidential information harmful to their reputation.  Only their survivors and succeeding generations are the ones who could/would be offended.  In virtually all situations like this, life goes on.  This happens everyday.  We're talking about an individual who lived at least two, maybe three generations ago.  Are things that sacrosanct, in this case?  In my view, it's all academic.

Wade

[barry guerrero]

yeah, and just imagine if TMZ got a hold of Natalie, Alma, and Mahler!! What indiscretions!

[mahler09]

I found that all of "Mahler" is on you tube and was able to watch it.  Some parts were out there and not necessary (i.e. Mahler's dreams or conversion) but the main story and flashbacks were good.

[GL]

Thank you Luca, now I understand what you mean by her privacy; I thought it could mean things relevant to Mahler.

Would the IGMG even get some of the money from the performances of the newly released scores? Isn't the editor the copyright holder?

My pleasure. I know nothing about copyright,  but I think it benefits only those who print (owning the score), not those who prepare the edition.
Otherwise, IMGM would not have economic problems.

Regards,
Luca

[GL]

Even if her diaries contain personal information that would be wrong to announce to the world, one would hope that an abridged version could be made available (perhaps under La Grange?) without offending her privacy.  I have read a lot of Mahler's letters and (despite Alma's interference) it has given me a different view of Mahler the man, not just the musical deity he is often portrayed as today.  It may not be high on the IMGM's to do list but first hand documentation of Mahler needs to be preserved in some way. 

While Alma suggested that Mahler did not care very much for her (we have to remember that she had to justify her infidelity and that she did not mention hger alcoolic problems), the last volume of family letters shows quite the contrary. For what concerns the weaknesses of the man, I understand and even justify many of them, not because he is a great genius but because I know that, apart from the American period, he grew up lived and worked in a hostile environment, surrounded by antisemitism.

Regards,
L.

[MeineZeit]

the diaries belong to Monsieur de La Grange. He bought them from family members of Natalie in the 1950ies.