Author Topic: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?  (Read 4951 times)

Offline sperlsco

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Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« on: January 04, 2007, 05:31:29 PM »
I see that Exton is re-releasing this as an SACD.  In DH's review of Neumann's Supraphone cycle, he mentions that the Canyon M9 remake (actually Neumann's 3rd M9) is preferrable.  However, that doesn't tell me if there is anything particularly special about it?  Has anyone heard it?  How's the R-B movement?  Is it worth the import price from Japan? 

I own Neumann's Canyon versions of M3 and M5, both of which are major disappointments.  In both cases the Supraphone versions are greatly preferrable.  So I am very hesitant to purchase any others in this final partial-cycle. 
Scott

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2007, 06:28:23 PM »
Scott,

Neumann's Canyon Mahler 9th is pretty similar to his earlier one in terms of tempi. It's also very similar to the old Ancerel one too. The playing is really beautiful, and really precise. It's not as sharped edged as the old Ancerel, but it's far better recorded, obviously. I definitely think that it came out better than the M3 or M5 that you mention. However, with MTT and Chailly both already out on SACD, I don't think that I would bother, personally speaking. And although it won't be on SACD anytime soon, for a single disc 9th, I expect the new Barenboim to be really very good. If you're going to spend a bunch of money, it might be more interesting to wait and see just how good of a performance this Sinopoli/Staatskapelle Dresden one turns out to be also.

Barry

Offline sperlsco

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2007, 06:55:49 PM »
Thanks.  Sometimes all I need is for someone to say "no". 
Scott

Offline John Kim

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2007, 08:08:32 PM »
Scott,

I have had this M9th in my collection. It is one of my personal favorites along with Chailly, Bernstein, and Ozawa. As Barry said, it is beautifully played and recorded; you won't find more resplendent string or woodwinds. Soundwise, it is probably the best sounding recording that CPO has ever made. Musically, this one is much preferrable to Nuemann's earlier one on Suphraphon. The interpretation is somewhat atumnal, rather than passionate, but that is understanble considering the conductor was very near to his own death at the time of the recording. Thus, the R-B sounds relatively rational but the orchestra shines through. If it ever gets reissued as a SACD I'd definitely buyt it again. I know there are many fans of this M9th like me out there.

John,

Offline John Kim

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2007, 08:10:02 PM »
Scott,

Where is the (Japanese?) website that says this M9th will come out as SACD?

Offline sperlsco

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2007, 12:09:06 AM »
Scott,

Where is the (Japanese?) website that says this M9th will come out as SACD?

Here it is:

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2508341

Scott

Offline John Kim

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2007, 01:08:29 AM »
Scott,

The Neumann/CPO/Canyon/Exton Mahler CDs were made using 24 bit technique. Will SACD format improve the sound of the recordings? If yes, how?

John,

Offline sperlsco

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2007, 04:43:23 PM »
Scott,

The Neumann/CPO/Canyon/Exton Mahler CDs were made using 24 bit technique. Will SACD format improve the sound of the recordings? If yes, how?

John,

It should.   Remember, a CD is 16 bit/44 kHz technology, so a 24/96 (or other higher rez) recording is down-sampled for a CD.  An SACD is capable of containing all of the information contained in a 24/96 recording.  In fact, there are many SACD's that are original 24 bit PCM recordings. 
Scott

Offline sbugala

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2020, 06:09:27 PM »
I didn't get to see if this was the SACD version or not. I guess it's moot since I don't have an SACD player anymore, but I requested this from my library as an inter-library loan...and I have to say I'm impressed. Beautiful! Great sound, and people have said. Excellent playing. The climax of the first movement has plenty of power, but there's eloquence when needed. I love the quick tempo for the 2nd movement. I'd prefer a little more power/savagery in the 3rd movement, but the interlude in the middle is magical. No problems with the final movement. Thanks for your thoughts from sooooooo long ago. I consulted this because I got to wondering about it after hearing Dave Hurwitz mention it in one of his videos.

Offline John Kim

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 07:40:16 PM »
Yes, the Canyon (or Exton) Neumann/CPO M9th is the best of his 3 recordings and surely among the most beautiful Mahler recordings out there.

John

Offline Vehemence

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2020, 01:20:14 PM »
The format will not have any impact on what you hear you on your stereo. The mastering and engineering are far more important to a quality recording than DSD, 24/96, or 16/44.1.

A few things:
1. There are very few recording companies that actually do DSD how it should be done. This Exton remaster was most likely recorded in high bit rate PCM, edited, then converted to DSD. So, you're not really getting a DSD recording. A true DSD recording is recorded in the format, and released un-edited. You can't edit DSD without changing it to PCM/DXD. Almost all DSD recordings are not really DSD. Check out nativedsd.com to find true DSD recordings. It's ownded by Jared Sacks of Channel Classics. He is very upfront about the recording/engineering and mixing side of things.

2. Having a high bit depth is nice, but the average listening room can't take advantage of the very low noise floor. Download a simple SPL meter for your phone and see how loud your room actually is.
 
3. The majority of speakers sold on the market don't play above 20KHZ. Also, given the age of people on this site, most of us aren't getting much over 12-15KHZ if anything at all.

4. If you do a level matched AB/X listening test, your results will be nothing more than a guess. 99% of the population can't tell the difference between well encoded .mp3's and a CD.

Perhaps this getting too technical for site about Mahler, but a lot of these SACD remasters and new editions are quite expensive. People should know that many times, they aren't really worth it. Simply placing your speakers correctly will yield far greater results than expensive remasters/formats/ and cables.

Offline James Meckley

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Re: Anyone heard M9 Neumann/Czech PO on Canyon/Exton?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2020, 12:21:27 AM »
+1
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
Henry Krehbiel, New York Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler

 

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