New historic Mahler release

[mdf]

Unless I'm blind, I've seen no discussion of the impending Urlicht Audio release...
http://www.urlicht-av.com/

for more detailed information, go here...
http://www.classicalpodcasts.com/panel/panel-discussion-13

[barry guerrero]

Gee, I was looking forward to the new Mahler 8 recording with Jonathan Nott from Bamberg (Tudor). How foolish of me, as I can now see that I've had my priorities all wrong from the start. Who wants Mahler with sound quality that approaches what it's actually like to hear these works in performance, when you could have the soon-to-be-famous Marston transfer of Oscar Fried's "Resurrection" symphony instead? I'm sure the surface noise quotient has been reduced by at least half, which means that you should be able to make out a few more subtle tempo changes (never mind the actual notes, though).  Besides, we all know that recordings could never replace the real thing, so why even try! (actually, many recordings are better than having a bad or mediocre seat at a live performance). And by all means, what true Mahlerian could possibly go on living without an updated and even more detailed version of Fulup! Is there a Black Friday cue someplace for these things? I'm going nuts. Maybe a fight will break out at Walmart. How could we have overlooked this set!   

[brunumb]

Barry, I take it that you don't particularly like recordings of bacon being fried inside a shoe box while someone is playing Mahler in the flat next door   

[barry guerrero]

"bacon being fried inside a shoe box"

 

[waderice]

I just acquired a copy of this Urlicht release.  I've only listened thus far to snippets of the Fried M2 and the finale of the Ormandy/Minneapolis M2.  Ward Marston/Mark Obert-Thorn have done wonders with these recordings (based on what I've heard)!  The sound might still be acoustic, but Fried's M2 is so much improved as to now be listenable (and now fuller, with more body, though still on the thin side), compared to the earlier Opal LP transfer release (my earlier source), which was noisy.  And the wrong notes sung by contralto Emmi Leisner at the beginning of "Urlicht" have been corrected, which wasn't done on the Opal release.  The church bells at the end of Ormandy's M2 spoil the conclusion of the symphony by sounding cacophonous, but the electrically-recorded sound is generally good, even if some orchestral and choral details get swallowed up, as it definitely sounds like a multi-miked recording.  The booklet accompanying the disks is excellent, and gives wonderful and useful information not only on the recordings in the box and their performers, but information also as to what numbers of performances famous Mahler conductors gave of the symphonies and DLvdE.  For example, I used to think that Bruno Walter NEVER tackled M3, M6, M7, and M8.  Based on the information given, it turns out that he never performed only M6.  And other conductors, such as Furtwangler, did perform some, if not all, of the symphonies in pre-Nazi Germany.

This release now eliminates the audio problems that some here feel sounds like "bacon being fried inside a shoe box".  So there's some more good listening ahead for me, and hopefully for others, in this limited edition release.  I feel that there is/can be a lot to be learned about early Mahler performance in these transfers to compare with what we now have, and how Mahler performance has evolved.

The Brilliant Classics 10-CD box of early performances of all the symphonies and DLvdE is also a mandatory complementary set along with this Urlicht set that needs to be on the shelf of any serious Mahlerite.

Wade

[barry guerrero]

.   .    .   " needs to be on the shelf of any serious Mahlerite."

Sorry, but I just don't agree with that view-point. I believe that serious Mahler buffs need to be studying the scores. There's NO substitute for that, new or old.

I do have a question regarding Bruno Walter: does the booklet say when and where Walter conducted Mahler 7? I was aware that he supposedly did Mahler 3 some place, but have never seen or heard of any reference to Walter doing M7.

"such as Furtwangler, did perform some, if not all, of the symphonies in pre-Nazi Germany"

This is pretty vague. Do they give actual information on the when and where's with Furtwaengler? It's been argued back and forth for decades as to how much, if any, Mahler Furtwaengler actually did. I really wonder if anybody really has the actual facts (and even if they did, what would it matter at this point?).

[waderice]

I probably needed to be clearer in what I meant by "needs to be on the shelf of any serious Mahlerite".  Yes, your assertion about studying the scores is the most important thing.  That is provided the individual has the ability to do it, and depending on what musical training they've had.  To clarify the statement, having these prewar recordings to compare with more modern recorded performances provides a reference as to how particular Mahler works were performed by a given conductor, and general performance practice, during those early times.  Mengelberg's liberal use of rubato and portamento might serve as an example, such as in his 1939 M4 recording, though it isn't part of the present set.

The booklet doesn't give specific dates and locations for the various conductors and the works conducted (except in only occasional instances), other than to state NUMBERS of Mahler performances, to include songs as well as the symphonies.  Much of the information regarding these performances was provided by Mahler biographer Henry-Louis de la Grange and associates, particularly Sybille Werner (the co-author of the set's booklet) with a significant amount of the performance numbers coming from Universal Edition, Vienna, based on score rental information.

You're in luck regarding Walter on M3 and M7.  He is credited in the booklet with performing M3 in Vienna with the Konzertverein Orchestra on October 25, 1909, the only performance of any Mahler symphony by him during Mahler's lifetime.  Regarding M7, he gave only two performances of that in Vienna in March, 1920.

And for Furtwangler, the booklet credits him with 42 Mahler performances, with the first four symphonies stated as comprising the majority of that number, though no specific numbers for specific works, dates, or locations are given.

So bottom line, a significant database for Mahler performance information by whom, when, and where might be Universal Edition, even if it may not be fully comprehensive.  Maybe some day, someone with the patience and perseverance might undertake to compile such information and make it available ON-LINE as a living document.

The booklet accompanying the set is one of the largest I've ever seen for any CD set I have, with text for the Werner essay comprising 58 pages in small print, and entirely in English, thankfully.  It isn't easy to locate or extract specific information, and takes some time.  A good part of an entire evening might be taken up with reading the booklet, which seems to be a great historical resource.

I forgot to say in my previous post that one aggravating thing about the set is that each CD comes in a pre-sealed paper envelope with cellophane window to read the disk label.  Opening the individual envelope can be a bit of a task, and needs to be done with care, should a tool, such as a letter opener, be used to slit each envelope to open it, which I didn't want to do for fear of scratching a CD.

Wade

[mike bosworth]

I posted the following here back in 2010:

-----------------------------------------------------


Bruno Walter actually conducted three performances of M7 in 1920.  They took place on March 5, 6, and 7 in Vienna, at the Grosser Musikvereinssaal.  At first only two performances had been announced.  The first on March 5th was billed as a “Festaufführung”, to be followed on the 6th by a “Viertes Zykluskonzert.”   

The first performance on March 5th was later re-billed as a public dress rehearsal (“Hauptprobe”).  It was then announced that due to demand an additional third performance would be added on March 7th.  A notice in the “Neue Freie Presse” for this performance may be seen here, near the top of column 3: 

http://tinyurl.com/387van8

Walter’s arrival in Vienna to begin rehearsals was noted in the “Neue Freie Presse” on March 3rd, which means he must have arrived a day or two before that.

It has been difficult to find many reviews of these performances with the resources available to me.  In a Feuilleton which appeared on March 8 (signed “J. K.” = Julius Korngold), three paragraphs were devoted to a review of the music and performance.  Only the last paragraph deals directly with Walter’s conducting (in the Finale).  I attempt to translate it as follows:

“Bruno Walter brought out this last movement with the most sensitive feeling, using a dynamic which saved on breath, wisely restrained, and scattered the light.  This excellent artist really approaches all Mahler-music with such a complete, singular understanding!  The knowledge and feeling that he possesses stood him in good stead with the Seventh as well.  Full performance fortune bloomed for this piece, which in previous Vienna presentations was abridged, but not this time.  A shortage of rehearsals could not be overcome.  The lines were perfectly, clearly drawn out; the spirit was present but the timbre stayed away, not to speak of flu-affected bells and tenor horn.  All the more wonderful then was the Mahler-loyalty of the audience, all of whom showed their readiness, even towards this weaker work of the Master, to provide feelings of appreciation”.

For those who can read German, the original text may be found at the bottom of column 2 (from the “Neue Freie Presse”, March 8, 1920):   

http://tinyurl.com/2vr8rrw

Assuming my translation is correct, Korngold implies that there were cuts (or not all movements played?) in previous Vienna performances (there can’t have been very many between Mahler’s death in 1911 and these Walter performances).

In the combined April 1920 issue of the “Musikblätter des Anbruch” (2nd Year, issues 7-8), there is an article entitled “Representative Mahler Performances in Vienna”.  I translate the very brief comments by the author (R. S. Hoffmann) as follows:

“…Also this year, he [Walter] fascinated us with the powerful ‘Seventh’, with which he unbelievably filled the hall three times.”

Mike Bosworth

[mike bosworth]

And revisiting my old post, I of course found an error in my translation of Korngold's comments.  Here is a corrected version of the sentence in question:

"Full performance fortune for this piece, which in previous Vienna presentations was abridged, again did not bloom this time".

Mike Bosworth
Phnom Penh

[barry guerrero]

Well here's a big thank you to both of you! That's really something. Things are still a bit vague with regards to Furtwaengler, aren't they? I've heard so much back and forth arguing on Furt. and Mahler. Perhaps people's opinions on this topic have to do with their feelings towards Mahler's music, and maybe even if  they're somewhat antisemitic or not. 

[waderice]

Furtwangler's attitude toward Mahler's music certainly shows post-WWII when it took Fischer-Dieskau to convince him to let him record Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen in the early 'fifties.  And his few performance recordings of Mendelssohn's music shows his apparent anti-semitic attitude in the huge Furtwangler box I have.

Wade

[barry guerrero]

And of course, more important than any of that, is the fact that Furtwaengler managed to safeguard Jewish players in the BPO - or so I've been told.

[David Boxwell]

Urlicht set is worth acquiring if only for Mark Obert-Thorn's state-of-the-art restoration of the 1938 Walter/VPO 9th. He surpasses his own effort for Naxos (2002), as well as renditions by Pristine, Dutton, and EMI.  O-T has eliminated virtually all extraneous audience and podium noise (especially Walter's grunting), with just a few dampened coughs between movements to acknowledge this is a (mostly, as we now know) live performance. Bass response is artfully done and compensates much for the still-occluded tuttis.  I have relegated all my other Walter '38 Ninths to the "orphan box" in the basement.

[David Boxwell]

Wait, wait there's more!  M O-T also tackles the 36 Walter/VPO DLVDE and the results are staggeringly rewarding.  It doesn't sound like an almost 80 year-old recording in his hands, and aside from the first minute or so, all of Walter's distracting grunting-huffing has been excised.  As has the audience coughing and shuffling.  Full spectrum top and bottom.  Leaves all the competition (Dutton et al.) in the shade.

[waderice]

Wait, wait there's more!  M O-T also tackles the 36 Walter/VPO DLVDE and the results are staggeringly rewarding.  It doesn't sound like an almost 80 year-old recording in his hands, and aside from the first minute or so, all of Walter's distracting grunting-huffing has been excised.  As has the audience coughing and shuffling.  Full spectrum top and bottom.  Leaves all the competition (Dutton et al.) in the shade.

Keep the positive comments coming!  I'd particularly like to see what you have to say about the earlier recordings, particularly the acoustic ones, even if Mahler's orchestrations don't come through fully, or properly!

Wade