Gielen/Mahler 7/Berlin Philharmonic

[ChrisH]

I recently picked this disc up through Amazon. Gielens Mahler is something I've always enjoyed, so I thought I would check this disc out and see what he sounds like with Berlin. This was recorded about a year and half after the recording with Baden-Baden was made. He was filling in a for sick Tennstedt on short notice. The liner notes don't mention exactly how short the notice was. I'd be curious to know.

The timings are similar between the recordings. The feeling is not. This recording with Berlin is very lush, the strings dominate.  It's a very beautiful recording of the 7th. It's quite laid back until we reach the last movement. No sense of urgency, very little tension. It's just beautiful. This recording has no swagger.It's well played and recorded; there are a few trumpets foibles. The percussion is captured very well. The winds are distant and the horn are very prominent. It has no rough edges.

Maybe this is a case of the sound of an orchestra. For my taste, the symphony in Baden-Baden is better at the sounds, textures and colors of Mahler than the Berlin Philharmonic in these two recordings. Gielen is giving a very similar reading of the 7th both in Berlin and Baden-Baden and the sound is just so different. There was no wit or irony in the Berlin playing, no explosion of sound and color. Just beautiful sound. It's all quite romantic in Berlin. Perhaps they just weren't feeling Gielen that night.

[akiralx]

Thanks for your comments.  I haven't heard this but it has been getting rave reviews for the performance and recording - but then so does Stenz's SACD of the Seventh, which I found very ordinary.

[umbernisitani]

I think it's quite sad that Tennstedt had to be replaced in this live concert.  Tennstedt's live M7 with the LPO (1991) is one of the most intense performances of any work ever recorded, and he also did many inspiring concerts with the BPO in this period (an excellent Bruckner 8, for example, and Schubert).  So to hear late Tennstedt with the BPO in his searing interpretation of the work would have been downright thrilling.  It's just quite unfortunate that this great musical might-have-been turned out to be a merely beautiful performance.

[barry guerrero]

I have a 'burn job' of a live Gielen M7, but I don't think it's the same as this BPO issue. It has exactly the same timings as his Haenssler issue, except that the finale is almost a minute shorter (which is an improvement). It's quite good. I'm passing on this one because I've picked up so many really good M7's in the last year: Zinman, Nott, Stenz - all of these are very good, if not great.

I'm hopeful that Chailly will remake the 7th on DVD in Leipzig.

[sperlsco]

I recently picked this disc up through Amazon. Gielens Mahler is something I've always enjoyed, so I thought I would check this disc out and see what he sounds like with Berlin. This was recorded about a year and half after the recording with Baden-Baden was made. He was filling in a for sick Tennstedt on short notice. The liner notes don't mention exactly how short the notice was. I'd be curious to know.

The timings are similar between the recordings. The feeling is not. This recording with Berlin is very lush, the strings dominate.  It's a very beautiful recording of the 7th. It's quite laid back until we reach the last movement. No sense of urgency, very little tension. It's just beautiful. This recording has no swagger.It's well played and recorded; there are a few trumpets foibles. The percussion is captured very well. The winds are distant and the horn are very prominent. It has no rough edges.

Maybe this is a case of the sound of an orchestra. For my taste, the symphony in Baden-Baden is better at the sounds, textures and colors of Mahler than the Berlin Philharmonic in these two recordings. Gielen is giving a very similar reading of the 7th both in Berlin and Baden-Baden and the sound is just so different. There was no wit or irony in the Berlin playing, no explosion of sound and color. Just beautiful sound. It's all quite romantic in Berlin. Perhaps they just weren't feeling Gielen that night.

I've listened to this a few times through now -- all in my car.  I agree with much of what you say in terms of the Berlin PO v. SWRSO, but my overall reaction to this performance is much more positive than yours.  I really like Gielen's earlier M7 with the SWRSO, though I haven't pulled it off the shelf for 5 years or so.  I remember being especially pleased with some of the ugly sounds that Gielen could coax out of the SWRSO.  Gielen doesn't quite get these same colors with the BPO, but they are nowhere near as smooth sounding as they are for Abbado (another recording that I quite like).  I think the BPO plays fabulously, while Gielen does a great job of building and releasing tension throughout. 

My two minor complaints would be as follows:
1) I prefer the mandolin to strum its sections in the second nachtmusik (see Tennstedt/LPO/live, Jansons/BRSO for examples
2) I prefer that the finale's opening be taken at a brisker pace.  In fact, when Gielen returns to this section later in the finale he plays it at a more appropriate tempo. 

It is a live concert recording, so there are the expected playing boo-boos -- but they are nothing off-putting. 

I'll probably pull out my reference recordings (Bernstein/NYPO/either, MTT/LSO) in the next week for comparison, just to make sure this recording really holds up.  I was unable to get into the most recent M7's I've purchase these past couple of years by Stenz, Nott, Zinman, or Jarvi,  This Gielen one seems to have renewed my listening interest in Mahler though! 

[ChrisH]

I've listened to this a few times through now -- all in my car.  I agree with much of what you say in terms of the Berlin PO v. SWRSO, but my overall reaction to this performance is much more positive than yours.  I really like Gielen's earlier M7 with the SWRSO, though I haven't pulled it off the shelf for 5 years or so.  I remember being especially pleased with some of the ugly sounds that Gielen could coax out of the SWRSO.  Gielen doesn't quite get these same colors with the BPO, but they are nowhere near as smooth sounding as they are for Abbado (another recording that I quite like).  I think the BPO plays fabulously, while Gielen does a great job of building and releasing tension throughout. 

My two minor complaints would be as follows:
1) I prefer the mandolin to strum its sections in the second nachtmusik (see Tennstedt/LPO/live, Jansons/BRSO for examples
2) I prefer that the finale's opening be taken at a brisker pace.  In fact, when Gielen returns to this section later in the finale he plays it at a more appropriate tempo. 

It is a live concert recording, so there are the expected playing boo-boos -- but they are nothing off-putting. 

I'll probably pull out my reference recordings (Bernstein/NYPO/either, MTT/LSO) in the next week for comparison, just to make sure this recording really holds up.  I was unable to get into the most recent M7's I've purchase these past couple of years by Stenz, Nott, Zinman, or Jarvi,  This Gielen one seems to have renewed my listening interest in Mahler though!

I really like the Zinman and the Stenz. I've yet to make up my mind on the Jarvi. It seems we have different tastes. I still can't make up my mind about Abbado.

I wouldn't say I dislike this Gielen recording either. More I'm not sure what to make of it and where it fits among my Mahler favorites.

[barry guerrero]

"Stenz, Nott, Zinman, or Jarvi"

These are all lower level recordings than Bernstein/NYPO or MTT/LSO.  They are all really worthy, so do give them another try by turning up the volume more than you're used to. Stenz has the best finale ever (in my opinion). Nott's is a 'darker' performance than Stenz, but has the mandolin, guitar, cowbells and deep bells captured with such beautiful clarity. He also has a rockin' finale. Jarvi is agruably too fast in the first four movements - treating them all as a single prelude to the finale. But the finale is very good, so just listen to that movement.

Zinman is the lowest level recording of the four, so it really needs an extra boost on the volue knob. But it's also quite worthy. The central 'moonlit' episode in the first movement is the best I've ever heard it, and with truly gorgeous harp glissandos. He also has an excellent fourth movement (2nd Nacthtmusik).  I just listened to the Zinman M3 earlier today on my Bose 'thingee' - turned way up - and it's really quite excellent. Birgit Remmart sounds great. My favorite M3 remains Honeck/PSO, but I own whole bunch that I really like almost as much.

And thanks, guys, you've convinced me not to spend the money to get Gielen/BPO. I'm sure it's quite good, but I'll stick with what I already have. By the way, the 'remastered' Boulez M7 from the complete box sounds very good now too.