dvd/BluRay of M3/M4 with Paavo jarvi/Franfurt R.S.O.

[barry guerrero]

The are movements from both these performances available on Youtube, and they sound really good. I may have to 'spring' for this. Apparently it's going to be a complete cycle.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Mahler-1860-1911_000000000019272/item_Symphonies-Nos-3-4-Paavo-Jarvi-Frankfurt-Radio-Symphony-Orchestra-W-Meier-Kuhmeier-2DVD_6231433

[ChrisH]

They also have a 1 and 2 out on Blu-Ray.

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphonies-Blu-ray-Paavo-Jarvi/dp/B00O1Y5E7A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422025704&sr=8-2&keywords=jarvi+mahler

[James Meckley]

They also have a 1 and 2 out on Blu-Ray.

I plan to get both of the new Jarvi discs soon, but I've noticed something that may seriously affect sales of these and several other recently-released Blu-rays. For some reason Amazon has started printing a warning box on the pages where these discs are offered for sale reading, in part:

Playback Region B/2: This will not play on most Blu-ray players sold in North America...

If you enlarge the view of the back of the Blu-ray case, the discs are clearly marked:

Region Code: A B C - Worldwide (same as Region 0, meaning they'll play in any player, anywhere)

I have several of the discs Amazon warns won't play in North America (which I purchased from Amazon!), and they play just fine in my unmodified OPPO. All are clearly marked "Region: A B C - Worldwide."

James

EDIT: This erroneous warning on Amazon has been removed as of 2015-03-06.

[barry guerrero]

I'm picking up my copy of M3/M4 tonight, and can't wait to throw it on the barbie' (meaning the stereo). However, I'll get home way too late tonight to check it out. I'll have time tomorrow morning.

Barry "I'm just getting the plain-old dvd and saving $10" Guerrero

[hrandall]

Interestingly, a recent review of the M1/M2 Blu-ray disc in this series mentions a significant technical problem with the release - the Second Symphony appears to be at a lesser resolution than the First:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Feb/Mahler_sys12_718104.htm

Anyone have direct experience of this issue?

[barry guerrero]

I'm glad I didn't bother with that. I already have P. Jarvi's fine Virgin Classics cd of M2. The Youtube excerpts of M3 and M4 look and sound good enough to me, so I'm not anticipating a big problem. The acoustics of that church are 'boomy' though.

[James Meckley]

Interestingly, a recent review of the M1/M2 Blu-ray disc in this series mentions a significant technical problem with the release - the Second Symphony appears to be at a lesser resolution than the First...

There's a review of this M1/M2 Blu-ray on Amazon by "Tom" (who represents himself as having a background in broadcast television). He confirms the problem with the M2 and says it looks like an up-converted 480i master, meaning it's no better than DVD quality. In a followup comment, "Eric Lindstrom" claims that the entire M3/M4 Blu-ray is the same poor quality as the M2 on the first disc. Disappointing.

I think I'll steer clear of these and just enjoy the wonderful ongoing Chailly set.

James

P.S. The spell check on this site keeps wanting to replace "Blu-ray" with "blurry." Sadly appropriate in this case.

[barry guerrero]

I've just watched/listened to M3 and I think it's outstanding. Because of the 'boomy' acoustics of the church, this performance captures far more visceral impact than the exquisitely detailed but somewhat 'blunted' Abbado/Lucerne performance. As for the picture - WHO CARES! - we're not watching "Gone With The Wind". Actually, in truth, I thought the camera work was far, far better than usual - never allowing the camera to linger too long on any given instrument, or on Jarvi up at the podium (who conducts M3 superbly).

Because it's filmed in a church, yes, the lighting is a bit odd. I think there's some sort of color filter on the lights - if so, it's most likely so that the musicians don't have to deal with bright lights in their eyes. But this is an issue with the lighting in the church, and not one concerning the filming process itself. The sound is excellent - easily as good as on ANY dvd I own in my collection (and I just used the plain-old PCM option).

As is so often the case, I think people are confusing issues, i.e. what factor is influencing what outcome. 

Stop complaining - stop worrying - stop being home quarterback tech. geeks. If you miss out on this M3 because of minor technical concerns, you're missing out on a truly great performance of Mahler 3, including the wonderful Waltraud Meier. Again the camera work is excellent - enhancing what we're hearing instead of hindering it.

As for BluRay, I don't know - I don't care.

p.s. I just watched the last five minutes of the finale again. Because of the greatly reinforced bottom end (due to the 'boomy' church acoustics), and because of Jarvi's greater flexibility in altering tempi - just slightly - from one section to the next, this performance - for me - torpedoes the Abbado/Lucerne one right out of the water.

p.s.s. (p.p.s.?) I watched the Paavo Jarvi interview that follows the performance. His interview alone is almost worth the price of admission. Jarvi's very first words are, quote, "the third symphony is my personal favorite among all Mahler symphonies", unquote. He then gives a succinct but spot-on analysis of the entire symphony.   

p.s.s.s.  a great feature of this performance is that the audience is absolutely dead silent during soft passages and breaks (where everyone has a unison rest). You could easily think that this was performed in North Korea with an audience of people chosen for their party allegiance ("be silent or you'll end up in the Gulag"). There's no coughing, sneezing or fidgeting anywhere.

[James Meckley]

As for BluRay, I don't know - I don't care.

But some of us do care.

James

[barry guerrero]

I know - I'm just speaking for myself and not for others. Sorry if I stepped on any toes. I'm avoiding the whole BluRay 'thang' because I keep reading so many tech. issues and concerns surrounding it. A really good dvd is good enough for me.

All I can add to that, is that I am greatly looking forward to the M7/M8 release in this cycle (I'll pass on M5/M6, unless the scherzo to M6 is far better than usual). The Chailly/Leipzig M6 is really good, and has a truly fast-tempo scherzo (and great hammer blows).

[barry guerrero]

I just watched the 4th symphony which is, if anything, even finer than the M3 (two completely different symphonies, obviously). Paavo conducts it fabulously. Due to the resonant church acoustics, it has just an unbelievable climax to the slow movement. Again, the resonance helps to make sense of Mahler's loud tympani strokes - just like at the end of the third symphony. I particularly liked hearing was the bass drum 'whack' that immediately follows the lone cymbal crash. I have always dreamed of hearing it this way - as though somebody let off a bomb in the building. When I played that very spot myself in concert, I gave a fortissimo 'whack' with the bass drum turned horizontally (and using a large mallet for more surface area), followed by a single stick roll to keep the drum resonating for its two bar duration (if I remember correctly). Afterwards, an audience member came up and called it 'thunder drums'. But that was in a very dry sounding, multipurpose auditorium. Anyway, it's quite incredibly well realized in this concert.

In the fourth movement, Genia Kuhmeier is nearly as perfect for the part as Miah Persson (Ivan Fischer) and some of the other lighter voiced sopranos around these days. She does a great job on that swell towards the end, followed by the downward glissando: "Sanct Ursula selbst dazu lacht". Beautifully executed. And again, Paavo Jarvi gives a brilliant interview and introduction to the fourth symphony. I was very moved by this performance.

(later) Here's an Amazon review I made for the set:

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphonies-Nos-3-4/dp/B00RVHQOK0/ref=sr_1_1_twi_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1425885300&sr=1-1&keywords=mahler+jarvi

[justininsf]

Interestingly, a recent review of the M1/M2 Blu-ray disc in this series mentions a significant technical problem with the release - the Second Symphony appears to be at a lesser resolution than the First...

There's a review of this M1/M2 Blu-ray on Amazon by "Tom" (who represents himself as having a background in broadcast television). He confirms the problem with the M2 and says it looks like an up-converted 480i master, meaning it's no better than DVD quality. In a followup comment, "Eric Lindstrom" claims that the entire M3/M4 Blu-ray is the same poor quality as the M2 on the first disc. Disappointing.

I think I'll steer clear of these and just enjoy the wonderful ongoing Chailly set.

James

P.S. The spell check on this site keeps wanting to replace "Blu-ray" with "blurry." Sadly appropriate in this case.

I just saw this, I had ordered this on Barry's recco but have not yet opened it, I guess I'll be returning it.  Maybe it will get resolved or I'll get the DVD instead.  BTW, just last night watched parts of Chailly's M8, I just wanted to take a peek but ended up watching all of part 1 and then jumped to the very end.  I was so entertained at how disheveled Chailly got from the beginning to the end, it was sudden for me since I skipped 60 minutes, his hair was a mess and he was drenched in sweat!  Now I'm even more excited to catch the whole of part 2.

[barry guerrero]

The problem with the BluRay was with M1/M2. There may not be any such problem with M3/M4. But what I can tell you is that the picture and sound is plenty good on the plain-old dvd (and I own quite a few dvd's).

You can see some of the movements from Paavo Jarvi's Mahler for free on Youtube. The sound is pretty good on Youtube, but far better on the dvd (at least M3/M4).

[justininsf]

The problem with the BluRay was with M1/M2. There may not be any such problem with M3/M4. But what I can tell you is that the picture and sound is plenty good on the plain-old dvd (and I own quite a few dvd's).

You can see some of the movements from Paavo Jarvi's Mahler for free on Youtube. The sound is pretty good on Youtube, but far better on the dvd (at least M3/M4).

Hi Barry, it was also confirmed in the Amazon reviews that it was upconverted from 480i. And not just one of the performances, but both 3 and 4. 

While the sound is ultimately what matters, we are still buying a visual performance, and there really is a world of difference visually between DVD (480) and bluray (1080), it's such a huge difference it's not even really comparable.

Like I said, I may get the DVD, for one it is $10 cheaper but really it's more based on principle, it is ridiculous to buy a bluray that was just unconverted from standard definition.  That's like buying an SACD or a hi-res format that was just upconverted from CD, it's just infuriating as a consumer and a huge f*ckup by the publisher.

The only thing I would consider in terms of keeping the bluray is if the sound is indeed different and superior to the DVD version, I will see if I can verify that online first. The back of the bluray lists it as both PCM stereo and DTS-HD 5.1, I don't even know if that would be different than the DVD version.

[barry guerrero]

"The back of the bluray lists it as both PCM stereo and DTS-HD 5.1, I don't even know if that would be different than the DVD version"

The dvd has both DTS 5.1 and PCM. There's also a small note on the back that says "Mastered from an HD source". I just played back in plain-old PCM and it sounded terrific to me. Then again, I have a Yamaha player that gets a really nice sound - small Boston Acoustic speakers on stands and a Yamaha subwoofer. That's plenty good for me at this time in my life.

But as you've explained it, I now understand what the issue is with the BluRays. There seem to be more issues with BluRay discs in general, so I'm avoiding that format at this point. I don't need the added expense.