If you want to get Janson's RCOA M7, you have to buy this . . .

[barry guerrero]

Ouch! Besides, this will be Janson's third recording of M7.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=814337019143&rh=n%3A5174%2Ck%3A814337019143

[John Kim]

 I will tell you, this is the finest M7th I've ever heard live or on recording; extraordinarily well shaped. temporally flexible, completely idiomatic and aptly lyrical wherever called for. The whole set may be worth getting just for the Mahler Seventh!

[barry guerrero]

Thanks John, just what I need: a one hundred and something dollar M7   

[hrandall]

I just noticed that this available to hear on Spotify!

https://open.spotify.com/album/3dkhta6jlG2gWOeFdhvvEV

At least you can hear it for free before deciding to buy.

[barry guerrero]

Sweeeeet!    Thanks.

[barry guerrero]

Yes, it's very good, and perhaps the best overall one that the Concertgebouw has yet to put together (an impressive thought in itself). However, I'm not certain that it's all that much better than Janson's Oslo or Munich M7 recordings (resembles more the Oslo one). I certainly don't think it's any better than the Inbal/Czech Phil. M7 (Exton), or a few other truly top drawer recordings. I think the recent Dudamel one is even better in terms of capturing Mahler's startling sound effects, as well as for just the youthful zaniness of the finale. Personally, I would prefer a slightly quicker tempo for the second Nachtmusik (Mvt. IV). I do, however, like the generally slower tempi for the first three movements. However, Paavo Jarvi trumps Jansons for making a bigger 'racket' with the deep bells and cowbells at the end of the finale. (the Paavo Jarvi dvd is truly very good, but Jansons is better early on)

In short, this is, indeed, very good but I'm not convinced that it 'sweeps the board'.

[barry guerrero]

Listening again to the first movement, I'm bothered by Jansons slowing down significantly for the 'second subject, which, in fact, isn't really a second subject at all (it's a subsection of the first subject). There's absolutely no indication in the score to slow down there either. There is clear indication to slow down about a dozen more bars down the road (where the true second subject begins). Jansons' first movement is just a tad too 'all over the map' for my taste, and for what I believe the score says to do. Still, I've heard far worse, meaning that this is still pretty good in the end. Also, for my taste, there's not nearly enough made of the series of ascending harp glissandi in the slower, 'moonlit' middle passage. Zinman, Dudamel and Paavo Jarvi all really bring those harp glissandi into the foreground.

On the other hard, the 'teletype' rhythms farther down line in the first movement (horns and snare drum) are really well done. A little steadier hand and better harps would help make this movement become truly great, I think.

Mvt. II - Quite good. I like the slowish tempo. However, Jansons could definitely 'play up' the tango passage somewhat more for my liking. Both Dudamel and Jarvi do just that. Perhaps they're exaggerating the tango relationship there, but I like it. Jansons seems a little bland in comparison. Needless to say, the Concertgebouw woodwinds are excellent. It's hard to fault this movement in any real way, and the cowbells ARE very audible (so why not the harps?). 

Mvt. III - Mahler warns against taking this movement too fast, but I think Jansons sounds just a tad sluggish and fussy in this movement. I also think more should be made of the snap pizzicato climax towards the end. Again, the Concertgebouw woodwinds really shine. Not bad, but also not distinguished in any real way, either.

Mvt. IV - even though I think a quicker tempo for IV makes for a better transition into the finale, Jansons secures truly gorgeous playing in this movement. Both the mandolin and guitar cut through fairly well for a live recording. Also, the strings seem more 'involved' in this movement, to me.  Personally, I like a little more 'Italian serenade', and a bit less 'night music' in this movement. However, this is still very pretty to just sit back and listen to.

Mvt. V - I've got to tell you folks, I'm not real impressed with the Concertgebouw trumpets at the start of the finale, nor pretty much anywhere else in the symphony where they've been truly challenged (there are even a couple of trumpet 'clams' in the first movement). In fact, I'm not real impressed with the brass in general, but the woodwinds and percussion are just fine. Jansons' tempo relationships - from one section to the next - are really well gauged here. I do think the ending could be a bit more raucous. Still, all's well that ends well.

[ChrisH]

The trumpet part to the 7th is HARD. Maybe the hardest of all the symphonies, especially as a section. Also, the RCO has been swapping out brass members like crazy over the past few years; especially the lead trumpet. They've had a heck of a time filling in the shoes of Fritz Damrow since he's left. If you go back the famous radio broadcast with Kondrashin, the trumpets are cacking all over the place.

To do the trumpets parts well, you really need to have amazing 2nd and 3rd trumpets. They need to have the juice to hit all the concert high C's in the finale. I really wish we could have gotten a recording of this with the New York Phil, before Phil Smith retired. Their section was, maybe, the best I've heard as a whole.

[barry guerrero]

I hate to change topics, but is Phil Smith the principal trumpet on the Zubin Mehta/N.Y.P.O. M5 (Teldec)? Also, wasn't Phil Smith still principal when Bernstein recorded M7 with the NYPO for DG?

[James Meckley]

I really wish we could have gotten a recording of this with the New York Phil, before Phil Smith retired. Their section was, maybe, the best I've heard as a whole.

Are you aware of the 2007 Maazel NYPO recording of Mahler 7? Although not released on CD, it's available from several sources as a digital download, including 16/44.1 and I believe even 24/96 formats. Surely Phil Smith was playing on that one.

James

[ChrisH]

I hate to change topics, but is Phil Smith the principal trumpet on the Zubin Mehta/N.Y.P.O. M5 (Teldec)? Also, wasn't Phil Smith still principal when Bernstein recorded M7 with the NYPO for DG?

Yes, Phil Smith is the lead on the Teldec recording. I love that recording. I would say that it's my favorite M5, but it would only be because the brass playing is on another level. One I've not heard since.

He is also the principal on the Bernstein DG recording too. I realize now that I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I meant, a recording of the 7th with the most recent iteration of the trumpet section. With Phil Smith, Matt Muckey, Ethan Bensdorf, and Tommy Smith. Muckey and Bensdorf are basically principal type players doing section work. If you take a listen to the Scherzo in the Gilbert M3, you'll notice that the trumpet work doesn't fall off one bit when Phil is out playing the posthorn solo. Rarely do you hear something like that, you can usually tell it's the 2nd, or assistant principal.

[ChrisH]

I really wish we could have gotten a recording of this with the New York Phil, before Phil Smith retired. Their section was, maybe, the best I've heard as a whole.

Are you aware of the 2007 Maazel NYPO recording of Mahler 7? Although not released on CD, it's available from several sources as a digital download, including 16/44.1 and I believe even 24/96 formats. Surely Phil Smith was playing on that one.

James

I wasn't as clear as I should have been, James. I was meaning a recording of the trumpet section from '08 forward.

I actually have this recording, and it's a year too early. Ethan Bensdorf didn't join the orchestra until the '08 season. It's very close to what I'm looking for though, and the trumpet work in that recording is excellent. Maazel is almost Klemperer in his tempos though. It's an interesting recording, and very well played.

[barry guerrero]

I've listened to the opening movement again on 'burnt' cd copies. Part of the problem is that it's from a broadcast tape - the sound just isn't that great. I'm also really bothered by Jansons' stop-and-start tempo relationships; he's just all over the map. And again, the brass playing isn't up to the usual house standards.

Trumpet players crack notes here and there, and the low brass (bass trombone and euphonium) are just plain weak in that that weird passage that's right after the climax of the slower middle section (before the music turns fast again). Worse yet, there's very little atmosphere to that slower middle section. The microphones were located too far from the harps, and Jansons actually sounds a tad too slow in relation to everything else in the movement (better sound would help).

If you already have Jansons' Munich or Oslo M7 recording, I don't see any reason to shell out the money to get this one (unless you just have to have a complete RCOA cycle by Jansons).

As for owning an M7 with the RCOA, I would stick to Kondrashin (if you can find it) or one of the earlier Haitink versions. And as for the dvd version with Boulez, I actually feel that his 'one size fits all' approach to tempo relationships works better than this. It was a big occasion so the playing was far better too.

[John Kim]

Barry,

Still I favor this RCO version for the heck of the great playing and all the flexibilities Jansons imbues  in.

John