Timings and Samples for Fischer/BFO/Channel Classics M3

[barryguerrero]

I FINALLY located timings and samples online. The U.S. release date appears to be May 5.

http://www.challengerecords.com/products/14895765633224/

[Russell]

NativeDSD Music (operated by Channel Classics) has made available a free, short (<7 min) "outtake" from Fischer's new M3.  Here's the info from an e-mail I received from them today:

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In recognition of the upcoming Channel Classics release of the Budapest Festival Orchestra Mahler Symphony No.3 recording in DSD (April 28), NativeDSD presents an exclusive session outtake of the Movement No.1 beginning. 

This clip was separately recorded using a natural perspective minimalist five microphone ITU alignment for surround in DSD256, and provides a unique insight to the collaborative effort of the session recording process. The original five channel raw DSD256 recording was also converted to, and available in 5.0 DSD128, DSD64, and DXD, and further mixed to stereo in the above four format bit and sample rates.

The Mahler 3 recording took place in the Budapest Bella Bartok National Concert Hall in two sessions: March 7, 2016, and March 27-29, 2016.  This clip was from Take 2 of the 1st Movement, after a control room review of Take 1 with conductor Ivan Fischer, producer/recording engineer Jared Sacks, and several orchestra principles. In that audition, the tonal character of the bass drum at the movement beginning was discussed, and changes proposed for Take 2.

What’s presented is an unedited DSD256 recorded session excerpt optimized for 5.0 surround sound by microphone selection and placement. It was later converted to the other DSD bit rates, and additionally mixed to 2.0 channel for stereo delivery. It’s a backstage peek into a session recording of a major orchestra.

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Here's the link for the download. Note that you must have a DSD-capable DAC (or one that can handle DXD (352.8/24)) to play the file.

https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/JLBFOMahler3-mahler-symphony-no-3-in-d-minor

Russell

[Russell]

The Fischer M3 is now available for download, in DSD (up to DSD256) and DXD.  (This is in advance of the CD/SACD release.)  Cost is about 23 Euros for the highest resolutions.

https://channelclassics.nativedsd.com/albums/38817-mahler-symphony-no-3-in-dminor

Russell

[barryguerrero]

I have a feeling that this will be pretty good - probably better than his two previous Mahler releases: M5 and M9. The last three movements look to be pretty zippy, relatively speaking, but that's not necessarily a bad thing in such a longly arched symphony (and yes, I know that "longly" ain't no real word). I just wish he had a better mezzo or contralto at his disposal, but we'll see.

[waderice]

This Fischer M3 leaves him to record M7 and M8 to finish his cycle.  On that basis, I will wait to purchase the entire cycle when it is complete.

One question, however - I see that his M6 recording is not labeled as an SACD.  Is this an oversight on the part of the graphics department at Channel Classics, or was his M6 recording indeed released as a regular CD, not an SACD?

Thanks, Wade

[barryguerrero]

I'm very certain that M6 is also sacd. However, I believe that Fischer has already stated that he won't do the 8th (another one of THOSE people). The obvious thing would be to be combine forces with Adam Fischer's Dusseldorf personnel and let A. Fischer do the conducting. Be even if something like that were to happen, Channel Classics wouldn't record it.

[ChrisH]

I'm very certain that M6 is also sacd. However, I believe that Fischer has already stated that he won't do the 8th (another one of THOSE people). The obvious thing would be to be combine forces with Adam Fischer's Dusseldorf personnel and let A. Fischer do the conducting. Be even if something like that were to happen, Channel Classics wouldn't record it.

I don't know if he's one THOSE people but, in the emails I have traded with Channel it sounds likes it's their decision not to do the 8th. It could be a cost issue, or they feel like they couldn't do it justice on record in the way that they like too. Who knows.  I would love to get an 8th, and therefore a complete cycle, but oh well. I can live without it. Especially given the other fine recordings we received from these forces.

Slightly disappointed that they decided to release this in DSD only on the 28th and not PCM as well.

[barryguerrero]

I have to think that if Fischer really wanted to do an 8th, Channel Classics would oblige him. They could always issue a live recording, like everyone else. Given the soloists that they're using in their upcoming "DLvdE", I'd rather they not even try to do an 8th. I don't mean to sound negative about Fischer's cycle, but I'm just not that impressed.

To me, it's yet another cycle that has started out great, but is fizzling out in their more recent efforts. I'm hoping this M3 will turn that around. Given the singers employed, I have no interest in their proposed "DLvdE". Believe me, I want to be wrong.

[ChrisH]

I have to think that if Fischer really wanted to do an 8th, Channel Classics would oblige him. They could always issue a live recording, like everyone else. Given the soloists that they're using in their upcoming "DLvdE", I'd rather they not even try to do an 8th. I don't mean to sound negative about Fischer's cycle, but I'm just not that impressed.

To me, it's yet another cycle that has started out great, but is fizzling out in their more recent efforts. I'm hoping this M3 will turn that around. Given the singers employed, I have no interest in their proposed "DLvdE". Believe me, I want to be wrong.

I feel that the only real misstep in his cycle was the 5th. His 9th I really enjoy, though it is not for everyone, and there are other great ninths with faster tempos.  To each their own. Channel also doesn't do 'live recordings'. They do studio recording with a small audience. Fischer also will not record works that he hasn't toured with. This is how arrived at the middle movement order for his recording of the 6th. They toured and played it each night in a different order. They gauged from the audience reception as to what order the middle movement should be placed.

Zinman gave a very good 8th with very mediocre singers, too. Stenz as well. 

Personally, I don't think there are really any voices around who can do Mahler justice. Similar to what we find with Wagner. There are some who are good, but not to the level we had prior to WWII or even just after. It's a real shame we now Mahler sung by George London.

[barryguerrero]

Yes, fair enough. It's not as though we're in need of another really good 8th - there are plenty of them. I think there ARE good voices out there, but it's near impossible to get them assembled together for a single concert or opera. I just don't want to be disappointed by Fischer's M3, and I have a gut feeling that I'm going to be.

I suspect that Fischer clipped the fourth movement to less than 9 minutes for the simple reason that Gerhild what's-her-name isn't good enough to bother going any slower with. Trust me, I want to be wrong about this.

Thanks to Dave Hurwitz getting the ball rolling, people have been slinging the moniker "Mahler lite" at Nott, Stenz, Jansons, Zinman and others. If you ask me, that moniker best fits Fischer's cycle in more recent times. I sense a change in him (Fischer) and I'm not liking it. If it weren't for Channel Classic's outstanding sound quality, I don't think anybody would be heaping much praise on the last few releases. Again, I'm hoping that this M3 will turn things around - that there will be some genuine visceral impact, and that the finale's big brass chorale will truly amount to something. We'll see.

Mahler doesn't need to be loud and vulgar from beginning to end a la Georg Solti. But it does need to get some dirt under the finger nails and display a willingness to dig in and make some earthy and powerful noises, the way that Honeck and Pittsburgh have so clearly accomplished. I'd add Levine to that thought, except I can't stand Levine's penchant for ultra-loud timpani from one end of a piece to the other (opera house vulgarity).

Frankly, I'm really enjoying Haitink's recent BR Klassik M3, in spite of some passages needing more forward propulsion. He and they - the BRSO - get a 'rustic' quality without any inaccuracies, combined with excellent sound quality (albeit two-channel).

[ChrisH]

To me, a lot of Honeck and Pittsburgh is over the top, especially in the trumpets. There are dynamics in the score, and rarely, if ever do they go above FFF. I am with you on the grit and the grunge though. Oddly, it seems the term "mahler-lite" best fits orchestras with lots of younger people. Maybe this has something to do with teaching methods, or that fact that younger generations are much more familiar with this music. Or, maybe what Mahler scored for instrumentalists is not as extreme as it once was, this in turn would take some of the edge away. I went to high school with guys who played lead trumpet for M5 at 17-18 at various camps etc..

Anyway, I've spent some time with this Fischer M3. Here are some general thoughts:
The first movement is very dynamic in both sound, color and contrast. The sections with wailing horns and trombones have a very different feel and color than the tutti sections; hell they even articulate differently. Fischer also grows the sound by the addition of instruments rather than having everyone just blow. He does this through out and it always leaves him somewhere to go.

The post-horn solo in the scherzo is excellent, captured as if the player is really at a distance and not just in the balcony. This allows him to actually play, and not try to mimic distance by playing softer and using mutes/bags. I have never heard it quite this way on record.

Overall there is some very interesting things going on in this recording. I would like to get my score out and follow along because, there is some very different stuff going on that I've never heard before, or perhaps, presented the way Fischer does. This is also a very dynamic recording. The pianissimos are very, very soft. It's a very large to small recording. Fischer tells a good story, too. 

[barryguerrero]

I broke down and ordered the MP3 of it at Amazon so that I can hear it NOW (discs are on the way from Presto). Indeed, this is really good! I'm very happy to be wrong, so far. More later.

Later   .     .   

It's great! - even on MP3. Sounds terrific! All my doubts are swept aside. Are there very minor reservations?   .    .   .  of course there are. But the point is this: they're very minor.

Later    .    .    .   

I've listened to it twice and wrote a 5 star review at Amazon. Yes, perhaps it was hasty, but I had the time to do it today and I wanted to beat some of the other bird brains who frequently miss the forest from the trees at Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Budapest-Festival-Orchestra-Fischer/dp/B06ZY7K52Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494207812&sr=8-1&keywords=mahler+3+fischer

[mahlerei]

Hot off the press 

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/May/Mahler_sym3_CCSSA38817.htm

[barryguerrero]

Morgan often times draws the right conclusions, but for the love of me I can't figure out how. He writes the most bizarrely subjective reviews I've yet to encounter. I sometimes wonder if he even knows the piece that he's reviewing, but obviously he does. Very strange - to me, anyway.

[mahlerei]

Jared and the team at Channel seem to like it:

https://www.channelclassics.com/