Nézet-Séguin Philadelphia Orchestra M8 to be Released (FINALLY!)

[James Meckley]

If you mean the one 13 bars from the end, I don't have strong feelings one way or the other.

My problem is with the Luftpause most conductors observe at figure [213] where one is not written at all! (For those without a score, this is at the big organ entrance a minute or so from the end.) If you look carefully at the score, the sopranos and altos in Choir II are holding the first syllable of Alles, which Mahler has tied across the bar line into the organ measure. To make a pause there requires that the sopranos and altos either 1) disregard their written tie, or worse 2) continue singing, their voices being the only sounds heard during the duration of the pause. From memory, I can think of two conductors who chose option 2, and it sounds ridiculous: Robert Shaw and Colin Davis.

[erikwilson7]

Yes, I was referring to the actual written breath mark 13 bars from the end. I agree with you about the Luftpause that some conductors add in at figure 213 (thanks for checking the score!). I did a brief survey of more recordings on Spotify and other conductors that go with the first option you listed (complete pause) are Bernstein/VPO (DG) and Mitropoulos/VPO (1960). It sounds odd to me. Option 2 seems a bit more common unfortunately, the most accessible example being Jansons from the RCO cycle. That also sounds a bit odd and unnatural to me.

[waderice]

The question of the Luftpause at this point of the score of M8 is of no major consequence or problem for me.

To me, the greater issue of whether or not a Luftpause is observed occurs at the choral ending of M2, where some conductors either do, or don't observe the Luftpause at the fortissimo point where the chorus sings "Sterben werd ich um zu leben!"  Mahler has specifically put it here in his score.  Some conductors do not observe it, and for those that do, some tend to take it entirely too long, ruining the effect of this intense part of the symphony.

Wade

[barryguerrero]

I feel the same. When the pause is too short, it just sounds awkward. It works better if you hold that pause a second longer. But I'm fine when it's not observed at all.

[ChrisH]

Last night I watched Chailly with Lucerne do the Mahler 8. There is no luftpause in this recording either. Since they were using the Universal Edition, maybe this has been removed. The performance itself was excellent. This may be the best choral work I've heard done in this piece. Their diction was outstanding, you could really understand what they were singing. The soloist were quite good, minus some pitch problems with all those high C's that the sopranos deal with. The tenor had  a great sound but, his voice was a little too small and he was straining a little in the bigger moments. The woman who sung the Mater Glorioso was incredible. She used very little vibrato and had a beautiful, pure tone.

The Festival Orchestra was outstanding. To me, they sounded more a real ensemble than they did in the Abbado Blu-Rays with Lucerne.

This is a great Blu-Ray. Chailly is similar to his earlier Leipzig recordings but, perhaps not quite as large in sound. That could have to do with many factors though. It's very similar to the recent A. Fischer recording and I would say Zinmans with Tonhalle Zurich. More music than spectacle.

[Leo K]

I have an in-house recording of this - I'll have to listen to it again to get reacquainted. I do remember how awesome the organ is.

 

[barryguerrero]

Chailly's Lucerne M8 has received much high praise. I've watched it - I still have a preference for the earlier Leipzig one. Both are very good.

I've kept three M8's on DVD: Bernstein/Vienna Phil., Chailly/Leipzig and Dudamel/cast of a thousand. I like all three of them, but I consider the Chailly the 'best compromise'. I also own the Paavo Jarvi/Frankfurt one, but that's more for the very good M7 in that set.

[erikwilson7]

I also own the Chailly/Lucerne performance. I find it very good, although I still prefer his RCO CD (Decca) and the Leipzig performance. Chailly is pretty amazing with M8.

As far as the Lucerne performance goes I think Peter Mattei gives the finest Pater Ecstaticus I’ve heard. He just puts down his music and sings his heart out.

[Konsgaard]

The finale is already out to sample on the streaming services. It sounds really unimpressive, different from the YouTube video which I thought sounded much better (both in terms of performance and sound). Nearly-inaudible organ too, I hope the complete release will be better.

[barryguerrero]

At least two of us noted the very strong presence of the organ, so I'm wondering if it's something to do with your computer's sound system (?). Have you tried the posting of it on Spotified? I'm getting plenty of organ and everything else. With all the noise, the percussion are a bit recessed (unison gong and cymbals).

[erikwilson7]

I think the only recording of M8 with louder organ pedal tones is the Boulez one (DG). I played this in my car the other night and my rear view mirror was shaking. Konsgaard, I think it may just sound different than we're used to in comparison to other M8s. This organ has a particularly full and spacious sound in this recording. At high volume the wall of sound at the end is nearly overwhelming (in a good way). The final button chord is unbelievable. And I really love the immediate enthusiasm from the audience.

[waderice]

I think that we need to wait and withhold judgment on Nézet-Séguin's Philadelphia M8 until it actually comes out on disk.  We're getting lots of varying opinions from varying sources with users listening to it on varying types of sound equipment.

When I get my copy of the DG commercial disk, I'll need to compare it with my broadcast aircheck of four years ago.  Then pit those against my aging memory of what I can best recall when I was there at the Kimmel Center's Verizon Hall to hear the actual performance in person.

Wade

[Konsgaard]

Tried it on 2 different laptops, different sound card and with a DAC. Also with 2 different pairs of headphones. Solti, Bertini, Boulez, Jarvi to name but a few have a louder organ, I need to check the rest of my collection (it is one of my favourite Mahler symphonies, if not my favourite, so I collect them compulsively). Ok maybe I was overreacting: the organ is audible but slightly so when compared to other recordings. Now, this is what I meant... But I have other issues on this single track: very annoying audience noise, there is a VERY annoying cough at 17 seconds, followed by more coughing at 22 and 24 seconds. Now, this is one of the most sublime, crucial moments of the symphony the chorus singing pianissimo in what is supposed to be utter silence and mystery. We have record labels like BR Klassik removing every single audience and stage noise from live recordings (i.e. the ones with Jansons). But DG decides not to edit them out? If you have followed other live DG released from the last few months you will notice that the coughing is really bad on their recordings, something that was not the case a few years ago with the same label. I am really wondering what on earth is going on.

Anyway, organ aside AND recorded sound aside (apart from the audience noise, it is rather unfocused and I've heard the lossless CD quality version on Tidal), the performance lacks momentum in the closing pages, at 6 mins it seems to drag and drag on... But we shall wait and see, perhaps the rest of the performance is OK.

[Leo K]

I've been listening to the broadcast recording of this and it's as not as compelling compared to the recent one my Adam Fischer though I like the trombones near the end.

If the commercial release has better sound that could change things immensely.

[barryguerrero]

They're very, VERY different performances. I like the 'big-ness' of the N-S./Philly performance. Anthony Dean Griffey is hardly my favorite tenor in M8, but he's more palatable here than he was on the MTT/S.F.S. recording.

I'm a bit puzzled by the sound quality conundrum, because the organ on the Spotify sample absolutely roars on my computer's modest sound system. The final chord is extremely strong - at least coming through my setup. Maybe the Mahler gods are just smiling upon me.