Author Topic: I pulled the trigger - I ordered a B.P.O. Mahler symphonies box.  (Read 2674 times)

Offline barryguerrero

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Hi. I sold off some things so that I can buy the Berlin Phil.'s Mahler box we've been discussing. Given that Simon Rattle's M8 boasts having John Botha as the tenor, and that it'll have nice tam-tam smashes played on a big Wuhan gong     .      .     .    well, that's the main selling point for me. Botha sings on the Boulez M8 on DG. Boulez has a great ending to Part 1, but a rather deflated ending to Part II: very little organ; weak percussion (simultaneous cymbals and tam-tam) and not terribly impressive brass. Still, I'm keeping my Boulez box anyway.

There are some good things in the Boulez box. The orchestras are great and there some really good vocal contributions. It's Boulez himself who's the only real shortcoming, at times. One of the things I jettisoned which may surprise you folks, is the L.P.O.'s own box of Tennstedt Mahler.

I got that Tennstedt box mainly because I had attended one of the live performances of the Mahler "Resurrection" in 1981. It was an awesome performance, but the live recording is disappointing to me. Either that performance wasn't as great as I remember it, or the almost indifferent sound quality just draws attention to the overly loud and sometimes sloppy playing. I frankly think EMI's studio recording is better. And speaking of better, the 1986 "Resurrection" Symphony that's also included is an improvement in terms of the sonics, but is also a slower and 'darker' approach to the symphony. I think the best item in the box is Tennstedt's 1983 Mahler 6. That's great and has the most genuinely frightening sounding Scherzo ever. But then there's that 1991 'live' Mahler 8 that many people make such a big deal over. I don't like it. By that point, I think Tennstedt was allowing himself to be overwrought at the podium. That performance is just loaded with hugely massive ritardandos, without much in the way of counteracting accelerandos. Yet, he still took the end of Part II at a pace that was a bit too fast for all the slowness that preceeded it. I also can't stand those garish, metallic 'whang' sounding Paiste tam-tams. To be honest, I just don't want that Mahler 8 in my collection. I think his earlier studio one was far better. Not a popular opinion, I know, but I can only go by what 'works' for me (and what doesn't work).

I also didn't like the hard-to-decipher graphics of the box, or its layout. The essays were annoying too, as they were all about Tennstedt, while mentioning almost nothing about Mahler. I also jettisoned the Haitink Kerstmatinees Mahler box. Here's why.

The Kerstmatinees box has Haitink's best M7, and arguably one of his best M9 recordings too. The real issue for me is that the Japanese simply over did it. The box is difficult to open; I never knew what to do with that stupid Obi strip (hate those!); the disc sleeves were too slippery and precious. The whole thing had a beautiful presentation, but it just felt too precious to actually use. Give me something much plainer. Also, I have the entire Kerstmatinee Mahler stuff on DVD. I like that better because there aren't those stupid side breaks (always in the wrong places). I just didn't like the way the CD's were laid out.

Well, I'll see if my gamble pays off. So far, I've liked everything I've heard from that Berlin Phil. cycle. Everything seems to be proportioned just right (or close to it). I even like Haitink's outrageously expansive M9. The 'dark horse' for me will be Rattle's M8. Frankly, I rather like this, 'from the orchestra's archives' business; using performances conducted by a number of different people. I think these works are simply too big for one conductor to get them all 'right' from start to finish. To me, Bertini, Gielen and Inbal have come closest to pulling it off.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 12:26:54 AM by barryguerrero »

Offline erikwilson7

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Re: I pulled the trigger - I ordered a B.P.O. Mahler symphonies box.
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2021, 03:31:39 AM »
We have yet to hear 2, 5, and 8. Barry, please let us know how good they are when you get the chance! Like you with the Rattle M8, I'm eagerly awaiting the Dudamel M5.

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: I pulled the trigger - I ordered a B.P.O. Mahler symphonies box.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2021, 06:24:11 AM »
I'll give a full update and review. I think it'll be the first time I listen to the Mahler symphonies in numerical order in a long, long time. I want to see how it flows as a 'cycle'. I already have Andris Nelsons' Vienna Phil. M2 from a Salzburg performance on DVD. I really like that one. Sooooo, if the Berlin one turns out to be a dud (I rather doubt it), I won't be hugely disappointed. As far as M5 goes, the B.P.O. does that work quite well. It's highly contrapuntal writing plays right into their wheel house, so to speak - just as long as the strings aren't always too loud in proportion to everything else. Again, I won't be hugely disappointed if Dudamel's 5th doesn't stand up to the Karajan (few do, in my book). I have a feeling that the 8th will be just fine.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 06:37:29 AM by barryguerrero »

Offline John Kim

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Re: I pulled the trigger - I ordered a B.P.O. Mahler symphonies box.
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2021, 06:57:23 AM »
Barry,

>> The Kerstmatinees box has Haitink's best M7, and arguably one of his best M9 recordings too.


Doesn't it bother you that the tam tam smash at the climax of M9: I. is inaudible? I can't hear it no matter how I adjust my equalizer. Strange because all the other (soft) tam tam strokes are very audible throughout the movement.

As for the BPO Mahler box set, I remain hopeful that they will reissue it on SACDs at half the price. They just did it to the BPO Bruckner cycle and the 9 SACDs are selling for $60 on amazon.

John
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 07:00:51 AM by John Kim »

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: I pulled the trigger - I ordered a B.P.O. Mahler symphonies box.
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2021, 05:06:08 PM »
Yes, I agree John. The missing tam-tam is pretty disappointing. The tam-tam smash on the A. Fischer M9 is about the best one since the 'live' Karajan one.

Yes, I suppose I should wait until the B.P.O. issues Mahler on SACD. But I'm planning on finding a cheap BluRay player for my computer anyway. The sound system at my computer is real pretty good; Harmon/Kardon speakers. It has a nice sound. Also, the way BPO laid out the side breaks on the CD's is rather good. On M3, I can play the coda of the first movement before moving on to the second movement (if I want to do so). The finale of M3 is on the same side as M4, so I can play the big brass chorale and coda of M3 over and over. The end of Haitink's M9 is before Abbado's M10 Adagio (who cares!), so I can play just several minutes of Haitink's M9 over and over (which I'll bet is really beautiful!). You get the idea.

If I really love the box, I might get the SACD's too. Of course, that's assuming that that happens.

Offline John Kim

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Re: I pulled the trigger - I ordered a B.P.O. Mahler symphonies box.
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2021, 05:50:07 PM »
Barry,

I think the tam tam is there at that spot, but with the orchestra going ffff its sound is buried (you can hear tam tam very clearly just a few notes later!) I think Haitink should have had the percussionist strike it tad stronger.

Barry, plz report on Dudamel's BPO M5th. Thanks!

John
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 05:59:24 PM by John Kim »

 

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