Thoughts on Maazel's Vienna M9/10 Adagio?

[sbugala]

Hello,
    I've got some trade value at a local record store burning a hole in my pocket, and thought about getting Maazel's M9 with Vienna. Any thoughts? I don't hear much about this particular entry in his cycle...good or bad. Your insights are appreciated.

Sincerely,
Steven

[John Kim]

The sound and playing are gorgeous. But Maazel's conducting is wayward to say the least; many transitions especially in I. sound jarring and disruptive. Worst of all, the all important tam tam smash at the climax of I. (about 20 min into it) is all but inaudible. But the M10th Adagio is a different story and is magnificently done.

Maazel's later accounts with NYPO and PO are slower but better flowing and far more cogent.

John

[barryguerrero]

Aside from Walter's complete folly with M9 with the V.P.O., just hours before the Anschluss in '38, there are five other M9's with the Vienna Phil. that I'm aware of - Maazel being one of them. From a purely musical standpoint, I think best is the live Klemeperer that was available as an Italian 'pirate'. However, it was in mono. Next came the Until video that Bernstein made from his 1970's cycle. It's not bad. That was followed by digital recordings made by Maazel, Rattle and Abbado. Of those three, I feel the Abbado was the leader (I say "was", because I'm certain it's now out-of-print). A real missed opportunity was NOT recording the V.P.O. Mahler 9 with Danielle Gatti. I watched that whole thing on Youtube, and thought it was great. You can still see the Leipzig performance with them on Youtube. However, the mix they have on there now, doesn't look or sound quite as good as the one I had watched previously. Things come and go on Youtube. Anyway, here's a link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1VjTuVntGE

[erikwilson7]

The Maazel / Philharmonia M9 is the longest on record (95’), but it’s rather good. I find it to be his best M9, especially in a mostly weak cycle.

Though I have enjoyed the Philharmonia cycle in the past I now find it to be quite overblown and Celibidachian in length.

[sbugala]

I have the New York M9 with Maazel as a download. I'll need to give it a relisten.

I acquired the Vienna one. I like it. I know what you mean about the tam tam in the first movement...but the timpani near that point is brought out. I expected Maazel to be really slow in the second movement, but he kept things moving enough. In the fourth movement, he seems to want to underline the "Abide with Me" like phrase, and I like that he does. I have yet to play the Adagio to M10.  I think it was a worthy use of my trade.

[John Kim]

sbugala

Try to compare the 1st movts of the VPO & NYPO versions and you will see what I mean. I just can't live with the Maazel/VPO M9.

John

[barryguerrero]

John, weren't you very enthusiastic about a 'live' Maazel DVD of M9 he made with the Bavarian Radio S.O.?

[John Kim]

Barry

Sure yes, but because that BRSO performance flows (slightly) better and more cogently than the VPO one. But Maazel outdid himself with NYPO.

John

[sbugala]

I seem to remember getting the whole NY Maazel cycle more for the orchestra, than Maazel. I love Phil Smith's trumpet playing, and Philip Myers horn playing...when he's "on." And of course, Stanley Drucker on clarinet and Joe Alessi as principal trombone. His Third stood out as having some pretty eerie oboe playing in that first movement that I thought was cool.

But that Ninth was just on the boundary of being too slow. It jelled, but was pretty massive. I look forward to trying it again. And I've seen that Bavarian one on Youtube...so I need to actually sit down and listen to that one, too.

I really didn't mind the Vienna one. There are certain little things he puts emphasis on...(or perhaps the engineers). And you're right, the M10 Adagio is superb.

[sbugala]

John,
    You're right, the New York account is better. Good sound, that great New York Phil playing, and a powerful interpretation. I don't regret getting the Vienna recording; but I'd give the nod to the NY version now, too.

[John Kim]

sbugala

I am glad you liked Maazel's NYPO M9th. It is slower. Even in his BRSO performance which he recorded in 1996, his tempo got slower than it was in the VPO version. But it flows much better with transitions not sounding awkward and jarring anymore. And Yes, the great tam tam is there too! So, he's been consistent and held the same stance since the Vienna recording.

John