Author Topic: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify  (Read 307 times)

Offline barryguerrero

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Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« on: November 04, 2022, 12:36:55 PM »
Here you go. I'm not going to comment until I listen to more of it. It's obviously very 'consistent'. I just wish that there was a "Das Lied von der Erde", as I'm absolutely convinced "DLvdE" is necessary to bridge the gap between M8 and M9. Also, I could certainly do without all the rehearsal sessions and interviews included.

https://open.spotify.com/album/0LAPK50aiv9K4v7ImJQOJQ?si=0418LWeJS0WpRVr9MTTTbA
« Last Edit: November 04, 2022, 01:00:08 PM by barryguerrero »

Offline erikwilson7

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2022, 01:12:34 PM »
I’ve listened in spots so far and I don’t have anything ‘official’ to say about it until I’ve heard the whole thing. But I did notice a very rough soprano soloist moment during the really high part in “Alles Vergängliche.”

I thought the Sixth seemed very good from what I heard, excellent horns.

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2022, 01:46:52 PM »
Yes, I thought M6 was pretty good - great inner movements - but I'm just not happy with how the 'dissolution' of the symphony is handled in the last few minutes of the finale. As is often the case, the brief 'false victory parade' passage went for nothing (Mahler never should have revised that passage), and the rest of it just seems to be a bit fast to really have anything to 'say' about what's happened in the previous 70 minutes of music. The final A-minor outburst at the end of the symphony just seems too fast to me also. 

As for M8, I noticed the same high soprano problem you did. But what bothers me more, is that Jansons is so quick to cut-off the final "hinan". The final cymbal/tam-tam smashes are quite good (a bit fast, however), but the cymbals are way in front of the tam-tam on the very final stroke. It just comes off a bit hasty sounding to me. I prefer how Simon Rattle (in Berlin) handles that whole ending.

At some moments, there's great attention to detail. At other moments, Jansons sounds unwilling or uncomfortable with the idea of lingering a bit. There's always this Russian influenced, 'the music must keep moving along' feel about it. Granted, late Maazel goes too far in the other direction.

Still, it's hard argue against the consistency of this cycle. I'm just not sure it really has a lot interesting to say about Mahler at this point. Still, I want listen to the whole cycle in its Wagnerian totality. I just want to make certain I'm not being prejudiced against Jansons, who I find to be a bit of a run-through artist in music, in general. 

Offline erikwilson7

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2022, 01:52:52 PM »
That's a really fair assessment of Jansons' style, I think. To be frank, I think the great moments in this cycle can probably be credited to the BRSO instead of Jansons, though his attention to detail is admirable.

More than anything, honestly, I'm just happy to hear more BRSO in Mahler, my favorite Mahler orchestra.

And speaking of which, I have said this elsewhere but Rattle's recent M9 with the BRSO is really very good. I think it's certainly better than the Jansons one in this new cycle, though that one is also quite good.

Offline erikwilson7

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2022, 03:26:43 PM »
A couple of things.

1. Why leave in the applause on some of these if it happens several seconds after the sound is gone and the applause is just warm / lukewarm? It seems totally unnecessary. The best argument for leaving in applause are the Nézet-Séguin M8 and the old Horenstein M8; they're better because of it!

2. I think these recordings have been touched up a bit in the audio department. It seems like the tams are more audible / distinguishable than I've heard in the past with these recordings, and the M2 feels like it has more excitement overall (and it used to be a somewhat stale one).

Offline John Kim

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2022, 08:56:31 PM »
> 2. I think these recordings have been touched up a bit in the audio department. It seems like the tams are more audible / distinguishable than I've heard in the past with these recordings, and the M2 feels like it has more excitement overall (and it used to be a somewhat stale one).

---> BR Klassik typically does remastering each time they reissue previous recordings so I won't be surprised. IMO, the Jansons/BRSO M2nd was pretty darn good overall; the percussion such as timpani and tam tam were prominent throughout.

Of the Jansons Mahler cycle I think the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th are standouts. But the rest are pretty good too.

John

Offline erikwilson7

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2022, 10:03:01 PM »
I don’t think there are any real duds in this cycle, which in itself is admirable.

I love the 5, but he does that slowdown thing at the end with the added cymbal crash that bothers me. It’s not necessarily bad—it’s even pretty exciting—but it’s undeniably wrong.

Offline John Kim

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2022, 10:53:42 PM »
Erik,

For me it's precisely the same thing he does in the coda of V. that has earned my heart. He's not alone in this; Solti, Kobayashi, to name just two, more or less did the same wonderfully. I know it's not in the score but I think it makes sense musically and I quite like it^.

John

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2022, 11:14:09 PM »
My reaction is the opposite. To me, it kills the energy of that entire passage. I especially hate if they slow down where the trombones and tuba do their descending scale run (while the horns are whooping away above them).
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 11:18:16 PM by barryguerrero »

Offline erikwilson7

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2022, 11:28:41 PM »
John,

Do you prefer this to the way it’s written? Just curious.

For me, when that passage is executed perfectly the way it’s written it’s more exciting. See: Markus Stenz / Melbourne SO. In addition, he really accelerates through the coda (similar to Karajan).


Offline John Kim

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2022, 11:42:20 PM »
For me it works either way^

John

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2022, 04:37:24 PM »
I still want to hear the entire cycle in its Mahlerian totality before I make any more pronouncements. I hear things I like - I hear things I think could be better. Say what you will about Vanska's somewhat 'dissected' Mahler, at least he always keeps in mind where one of these symphonic monsters is ultimately heading. For example, I LOVE the way Vanska handles both the endings to M1 and M5. I'll takes Vanska's finale to M5 over Jansons any day.

A bit later:   .    .   .  just to make one example, compare the last five minutes of M6 between A. Fischer/Dusseldorf and Jansons/BRSO. While the Jansons is arguably better played and better recorded, Fischer handles the entire melt-down of the finale far better. Jansons 'gives up the ghost' too soon (that's just an opinion). Fischer has his horns play fortissimo at the 'false victory parade' passage, and keeps the timpani strong underneath them as well (it's not about what the strings are doing). Again, I think Mahler made a mistake in revising this passage (the first version has horns and trombones in unison, with more percussion underneath). Also, Fischer does not rush the final A-minor outburst and diminuendo at the very end of the symphony. I find it far more effective. To me, A. Fischer is a truly interesting Mahler conductor. I like his Mahler better than his brother's (in general).
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 06:05:47 AM by barryguerrero »

Offline erikwilson7

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2022, 10:09:22 PM »
John, I appreciate your open-mindedness about your preferences. I'm usually way more flexible when it comes to all other music, but Mahler? I think we're all pretty particular about our likes and dislikes.

What's a bit puzzling to me is that Jansons is keen on respecting the score and exposing all the details, but he takes a major liberty at the end of M5 and even adds / changes note(s) in the score to have it his way. Again, not saying this is bad for this scenario or even unusual with conductors in general, but it surprises me given Jansons' consistency with everything eise.

Barry, I agree with your assessment on the Jansons M6. It's by-the-book without any real risks (and sometimes this can really work!). I don't think Jansons is much of an 'ideas' conductor, and because of that we should probably consider his recordings for what he intends to convey, which is a consistent and straightforward interpretation. Pre-pandemic it seems the fad was to conduct like this (which may have contributed to the commercial success of Mahler recordings by Boulez, Vänskä, and Jansons), but I think the past couple years have had people yearning for younger conductors who having something new to say, hence the appointment of someone like Klaus Mäkëla to the RCO.

My observations.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 10:13:09 PM by erikwilson7 »

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2022, 06:10:12 AM »
Fair enough. I don't know enough about the new guys to have anything real to say. I've watched some Mahler with Makele on Youtube, and it struck me as just being energetically routine. However, I'll keep an open mind. and keep on watching and listening. I don't want to give too much credence to pre-pandemic/post-pandemic type conversations just yet. How do you put the umlauts on the vowels?

Offline erikwilson7

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Re: Jansons/BRSO M1-M9 now up on Spotify
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2022, 02:37:40 PM »
Re: Umlauts and diacritics
If I'm on my phone (iPhone) I can hold my finger down on a desired letter and all the options pop up for different diacritics for that letter. The same goes for Mac computers. For Windows computers it's a bit more complicated; here is a link to a website that has all of the Windows diacritic key strokes. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do it on Android phones, but I imagine it's pretty accessible and a Google search might help.

And you're right, it's probably too soon to be making judgments on pandemic-related cultural impacts.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 06:12:19 PM by erikwilson7 »

 

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