OT: Osmo Vanska's Beethoven cycle

[Leo K]

I finally heard Vanska's Beethoven No. 4 and 5 (on SACD) last night.  I bought the disk on a whim, remembering that Hurtwitz praised this disk to the skies.

I was floored by both performance and sound quality, in particular the architecture has never been more clear in both these symphonies.  I am amazed at the sound of the Minnesota Orchestra here...as I have seen them countless times in concert and never thought they could play with so much life and power.  Although they were great under Edo de Waart.  All it takes is the right leader I guess!

Man, I gotta go and get the other disks in this cycle!

--Leo

[akiralx]

The Eroica and Choral are even better.

[Leo K]

Great...I'm going to get them right away.

[Leo K]

The Eroica and Choral are even better.

Wow...you were not kidding...the Eroica especially was a knock out...the best Eroica I ever heard....sound and performance.  The 9th is quite good too (although I'm a Furtwangler man when it comes to the Ninth).  It's a relief to have such a great sounding, detailed, well captured record of Beethoven's amazing orchestration for his Ninth.


--Leo

[akiralx]

Yes, the Eroica is superb, a favourite of mine alongside Abbado I (VPO), Kubelik, Rattle and others. 

The Choral could to some seem slightly small scale compared to earlier accounts from Furtwangler (the 1954 live Philharmonia from Lucerne for choice), Klemperer etc - but the focus and intensity compensate for any lack of weight, though I listened this morning and perhaps the first movement could be more powerful.  The only other slight snag is the weakish tenor solo and the fugato which follows (Karajan 1962 is superb here).  But a very fine version with many insights all the same.

[sperlsco]

I'm actually listening to the Vanska Eroica now, which I downloaded from eMusic.  However, I am not a fan of Vanska's 9th. I don't like the rather staccato sound to the first movement.  I really dislike overly fast third-movement Adagio's (generally, anything faster than 15').  And the singing in the finale leaves much to be desired.  I will say that the second movement is phenomenal, though.   It is strange, but I really like the new (Barenreiter?) edition when it is applied to the all of the other Beethoven symphonies, but NOT the 9th.  I really prefer a much weightier version of the 9th. 

I'll also mention that downloadable Eschenbach/Philly LvB9 is right up my alley.  I put it on the same level as Wand, Solti 1, and Bernstein 2, which are probably my other favorites. 

[Leo K]

Yeah, I prefer wieghter Ninths overall, yet I also like faster Adagios too, and Vanska's adagio is very good.  Yes, the singing on his 9th is not as powerful...actually it works for the overall Vanska conception of the 9th, which is not as cosmic or universal, but rather more personal in character.

Furtwangler is my ideal Beethoven performer, but these Vanska recordings are a good foil to my usual tastes.  Vanska's Eroica is more cosmic than his 9th conception...this Eroica is simply fantastic.

--Leo

[John Kim]

Could someone provide what Wand's Beethoven is like in general? Any comment on his Beethoven symphonies cycle on RCA?

Thanks.

John,

[sperlsco]

Could someone provide what Wand's Beethoven is like in general? Any comment on his Beethoven symphonies cycle on RCA?

Thanks.

John,

I have Wand's LvB 2, 5, 6, 7, and 9.  I have only listened to the 9th in the last couple of years.  I generally think of Wand's Beethoven (and Brahms) as being fairly driven, but still taking the appropriate amount of time to smell the roses.  I don't remember liking the 6th too much, but again, it's been a while.  Wand's Brahms is also top notch and features superb lower brass. 

[barry guerrero]

I'm very curious about the new Welser-Most/Cleveland B9 on DG. Dave Hurwitz gave it just a so-so review. But the excerpts that I've heard on the DG website sound pretty inspired to me.

[Roland Flessner]

I do not have SACD equipment, and I am surprised by Vanska's Eroica because of a strange echo effect. This is noticeable in the first two chords and thereafter, whenever sharp accents are heard. Instead of decaying gradually, the sound seems to bounce off a distant wall. For me, it makes this performance almost unlistenable. To my ears the recording also sounds weak in the highs, which dulls string tone and was also typical of Reference recordings with this orchestra. This is strange because of BIS's deserved reputation for outstanding engineering.

It leads me to suspect that BIS may have tried to add reverberation artificially for the Redbook layer. Since I have not heard any of the other Vanska/MO Beethoven cycle, I don't know if this is noticeable in other recordings.

Recently I stumbled across an Eroica with Jaap Schroder and the Smithsonian Chamber Orchestra in a secondhand store, probably long out of print. I like this performance a lot. Also on original instruments, I like Roy Goodman and the Hanover Band. Zinman leads a fine historically informed Eroica, though I'd rather the violins be divided antiphonally. Szell/Cleveland is a classic account both lively and intense. Wand is outstanding: a slightly Romanticized reading touched by historical awareness, and just astonishingly well played and recorded. Haitink's LSO Live account is in a similar vein, though the opening chords are a little sloppy.

[Roland Flessner]

I should have posed this as a question in my previous post, but has anyone else noticed the unnatural echo in Vanska's Eroica or other Beethoven recordings? Thanks.

[sperlsco]

I should have posed this as a question in my previous post, but has anyone else noticed the unnatural echo in Vanska's Eroica or other Beethoven recordings? Thanks.

I have the Vanska LvB 3 in my car, so I'll try to give it a spin this week and let you know. 

I've listened to two other Eroica's this week:  Szell and Dausgaard.  Dausgaard is one of my favorite "new" conductors.  I like Dausgaard's sharp accents and quick tempos.  This Eroica is fine throughout, yet the brass at the end is less glorious than I prefer.    The Szell has always been one of my favorites (Lennie/NYPO is another).  I listened to it just to contrast the glorious Cleveland brass with the Swedish Chamber orchestra -- no contest.  I also really like the Haitink/LSO Live SACD that you mentioned above.  I don't own the Wand but should probably seek it out. 

[John Kim]

I listened to Wand B2 & B4. Both works are played and recorded extremely well. Wand's approach is indeed driven, impulsive at times but the playing is so disciplined that I took everything for granted. Very interesting and stimulating readings. I look for Wand's B3, B5, and B9.

John,

[Leo K]

Regarding Vanska's Eroica, I too will relisten to see if there is an echo on the redbook layer, but the SACD layer sounds great (gorgious sound).  By the way, the Bv8 on the same disk is another excellant performance, with obvious brass and crisp tempo throughout, and well recorded on the redbook layer (haven't heard the SACD layer.
yet).

Another favorite recent Erioca is Abbado/BPO/DG (from the current box set). 

So, the LSO Haitink Beethoven SACD disks are a good buy?

--Leo