M3, M4, M7 - Bernstein Sony/Japan SACD's - General Impressions

[sperlsco]

Trio,

The improvement you speak of is from listening to the CD layer only?  I have to get this set, even though the wife will shoot me.

Oh well, you have to die from something...


BTW-In terms of improvement in sound I felt the same way about this famous Bernstein recording after getting the SACD.  Simply amazing what they did with it compared to the Bernstein Century Edition.

Yes, this one is also fabulous in terms of sound, and of course performance.

As for the Lennie/Israel PO/Ludwig/Kollo DLvdE, I believe that the DVD performance (now out on DG) and the CD one (a Sony release) are one and the same.  The old Sony CD has shallow, congested, and harsh sonics -- and I never really enjoyed it.  I enjoyed the recent DVD release much more, but I am not certain whether or not I can attirbute that simply to the visual impact.  I will be purchasing the DLvdE and a few more of these later in January (when the Macal/Czech PO M9 comes out). 

[barry guerrero]

The Bernstein/Isreal Phil. "DLvdE" is actually quite good. But it's another performance that's greatly undermined by the incredibly dry acoustics of Tel Aviv's Mann Auditorium. As expected, Ludwig and Kolo are really good. Then again, they're both really good on the Karajan "DLvdE" as well.

Barry

[Jeff Wozniak]

I ordered the 6th and 9th today.  Couldn't hold back after reading about the improvement in sound quality.  I'm probably the only one here who feels this way, but Bernstein's NY 9th is my favorite 9th overall, and I will be in heaven hearing it as if for the first time with the new remastering.

[John Kim]

As for the NYPO M9th, there have been three CD editions so far based on three different remasterings. All sound different (anyone with sensitive hearing capability can tell). I must say I prefer the very first CD that came out in early 80's before CBS became Sony. The worst is the second one, namely, "Bernstein Royal Edition". This CD sounds as if it is based on a second generation copy of the original session tapes; individual instruments are not well focused, dynamic range is limited. The latest one, "Bernstein Century" has cleaned-up sound with increased clarity but it's all at the expense of dynamic range - there isn't enough dynamic extremes between soft and loud passages. I once purchased Japanese edition of the sixth combined with the ninth on 3 discs (this CD box looks exactly the same of the current 3 SACD discs for the same programs). Sadly, they sounded pretty much like the Royal edition. I just hope that they did a completely new remastering for these SACDs.

John,

[sbugala]

The latest one, "Bernstein Century" has cleaned-up sound with increased clarity but it's all at the expense of dynamic range - there isn't enough dynamic extremes between soft and loud passages. I once purchased Japanese edition of the sixth combined with the ninth on 3 discs (this CD box looks exactly the same of the current 3 SACD discs for the same programs). Sadly, they sounded pretty much like the Royal edition. I just hope that they did a completely new remastering for these SACDs.

John,

That's how I felt about the Bernstein Century M3. It hardly sounded like it was recorded in Manhattan Center anymore. I ended up getting it on LP and it sounds like Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic again.  I'm almost ready to go crazy and purchase these on SACD, but I'll wait for a little more assessment from my fellow Mahlerites.

[Jeff Wozniak]

The three disc set of containing the M6 & M9 arrived today, and I have to say...OMG!

Thie sound quality is such an improvement.  It's truly amazing.  A/B comparisons show the new SACD to be so superior that it's hard tp believe they are the same sessions from the 60s.

 In the first movement of the 9th I hear bows clicking, chairs creaking, a cough I'd never heard before.  It's as if you're sitting next to one of the mics at the session. 

The bowing of the strings, the separation of the instruments, the harps, bells.  All sound SO much better and clearer.

Granted, I may have an advantage over you guys in that I'm listening to this on a super hi-fi system, consisting of my Sony CD Walkman and $15 Sony ear buds  (wife and four year old son are watching Disney movies in the family room tonight.  Will have to try SACD layer out later).

The CD layer alone gets a huge thumbs up.  Just ordered M2 from the same guy tonight before posting here.

Expensive, but if this set is one of your favs spring for your favorite M symphony and get ready to be blown away.  Then be ready to take a loan out to get the rest after you hear the improvement. All classic sessions should receive this kind of treatment.

Yes.  It's that good.

[John Kim]

Ditto!

I've listened to the CD layer of this M9th SACD and must agree with what everyone else was saying. The strings in particular sound unusually sweet and velvety. In general, the sound has become so much warmer. There is also more separations between the instruments, more space around them, and clearer, cleaner perspectives. As a result of all the improvements and changes, Bernstein's reading comes as less aggressive and warmer then ever before. Alas, the horn trills at the second climax in I. are still barely audible, a mistake that was corrected in Lenny's two later versions with BPO and RCO, and the dynamic range is somewhat compromised compared to CBS's very first remastering, but what it has gained in this new remastering far outweighs. One thing to note. The cover says the DSD mastering was done by Andreas K. Meyer, a name that sounds like an American. So, hopefully these DSD remastered SACDs will someday reach USA or Europe.

John,

[Leo K]

Wow...thanks for the reports gentleman!!! 

--Todd

[John Kim]

Strangely, I don't hear that much of improvement in the M3rd and M6th....actually with all the gritty details clearly audible this remastered M3rd (again on its CD layer) sounds very aggressive in the first movement. But I am writing this based on casual listening...I must give another try.

John,

[Jeff Wozniak]

I agree there seems to be more improvement in sound in the 9th than the 6th.  Maybe this is because the 9th is softer in sound overall, where the 6th is an all-out attack for the most part?

Do an A/B listen with the phones if you get a chance.  I can hear the difference right away in the first movement (especially the much fuller sound).

[Jeff Wozniak]

BTW- I'm listening to this now at work on my ipod nano (much easier to use while working than a CD player).  MP3s encoded at 320.  A/B comparison here is the same, although the MP3s obviously don't sound as good as the actual disc.

On the way to work I sampled the SACDs in the car.  Same results: definite sound improvement.

This is a winner all the way around.

[John Kim]

I now agree that this M3rd SACD has much improved sound. Unlike the M9 SACD it sounds rather aggressive and hard with all the improvement in dynamic range. Its crowning finale has always been hailed as one of Lenny's finest and I wholeheartedly agree. That movt. alone is worth paying $$ for. It is a great M3rd indeed. Quite an achievement for them (relatively) young Lenny.

John,