Author Topic: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!  (Read 15632 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« on: March 30, 2008, 04:28:33 AM »
One is extremely fast, the other extremely slow. I'll take the really fast one. Seriously, the Gergiev M6 is better than I had anticipated.

Yes, it starts out with a very fast march. But there's also sufficient contrast when the so-called "Alma" theme first enters. Cowbells are a tad too distant in this recording (except in the slow movement, where they're onstage). But Gergiev whips up the tempo for the end of the movement as well. I like that there's plenty of suspended cymbal at that big cadence point located just 20 seconds, or so, from the end of the movement.

II - Andante Moderato. Thank goodness somebody can observe that this is NOT an adagio. The word "langsam" (slow) isn't even mentioned in the score! As a result, I think that the first four to five minutes of this movement sound so much more alive. Gergiev is excellent with the first Alpine scene: ascending, unison horns; cowbells (on-stage); solo trumpet; trilling violins - it all simply couldn't have been better. When approaching the climactic plateau of the this movement, unfortunately, I don't hear the cowbells nearly so well. But as always, the LSO horns are excellent, and the high strings sound nicer than I had anticipated.

III - Scherzo. Aside from Rattle's, this the best scherzo I've ever heard. The numerous tempo shifts are executed in a sudden and striking manner - everything turns on a dime, just as it should. Sound effects are played up, so that the movement comes across quite spooky, as well as nervous. Let's face, this is halloween music.

IV - Finale. Again, better than I had anticipated. The slow, introductory section is much better than it is under Haitink. The numerous fast sections are, indeed, quite fast. I like it that Gergiev really builds up the tempo before approaching the first hammerstroke (and there's sufficient hammer here), but approaches the second hammerstroke - with all of the option percussion thrown in, by the way - with great trepidation i.e. slowly!! I think this greatly helps in distinguishing the difference between the two strokes (no third one employed). The final Allegro "charge" section is terrific - as good as I've ever heard it done. And then, here's the clincher - the real deal breaker for me:

Like Haitink, Gergiev really brings out the horns at the (false) victory parade passage (my description of it). But unlike Haitink, Gergiev also really underlines the percussion underneath the horns and sweeping violins. In fact, the LSO percussion truly outplay their Chicago counterparts from start to finish. To be honest, the timpani bang and pound a little too often for my taste. But hey, the timpani playing is truly very good, in general. My only complaint about Gergiev's finale, is that he does the very ending of the symphony rather swiftly - the final A-minor chord outburst (I prefer it slow, like Chailly).

I can actually believe that Haitink's LSO M6 - the one that you guys are so fond of - is actually better than the Chicago one. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that's truly superior about the CSO are their low strings (always a bit lighter with the LSO), and the tuba (Gene Pokorny vs. Patrick Harrold). I think that the LSO percussion play up to their brass, where as I always get the impression that the CSO percussion are expected to keep a slightly lower profile. The woodwinds are equally so-so in both orchestras (not their strong suit - either orchestra).

Another "telling" moment is right at the first hammer-stroke. The CSO trumpets take over and dominate everything. On the LSO recording, the trumpets aren't nearly so loud, so you can hear all the swirling nonsense underneath them. Thus, there's a greater sense of chaos at that point. Again, the CSO are just loud without things being sufficiently prepped. You have no idea why everybody is blasting so loudly. With Gergiev, the narrative makes better sense.

Timings: I - 22:00; Andante - 13:53; Scherzo - 12:34; Finale - 28:45

Barry

« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 05:46:49 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline John Kim

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2008, 05:18:42 AM »
Great! :D

I will surely get the Gergiev M6th SACD. But what about the sound quality? I am asking this because some of the recording son this label are not to my taste.

Thanks.

John,

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 05:26:11 AM »
James Mallinson did both recordings. As much as I can tell, neither is completely ideal - partly because of the concert halls involved. It may be that Mallinson's recordings are engineered to sound their best on the SACD multi-channel track, I don't know. But at least Gergiev's quick tempi better match the somewhat dry acoustics, as well as the excellent staccato, clipped playing style of the LSO (albeit slightly bright sounding too).

Offline Leo K

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2008, 05:33:02 AM »
 ;D

Barry, thanks for wetting my appetite for this...

I don't think I've yet heard a Mallinson SACD recording...I sure hope it's good sounding...John, have you heard his SACD work?

--Todd

Offline je-b

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2008, 02:13:44 PM »
There's quite a funny video on YouTube with Gergiev talking about doing Mahler with the LSO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AapF5rx9ouI
« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 02:17:23 PM by je-b »
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Offline Amphissa

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2008, 04:21:41 PM »

Well, Gergiev's M1 and M3 were so bad, M6 would be better just by default. And Haitink is so poker-faced boring that it's not hard to play any symphony more dynamically and expressively than he does.

I suppose I should give it a fair listen someday. Gergiev is near the top of my list as the most over-rated conductor in the world. But I always suspect, in the back of my mind, that he has talent, he's just way overextended, never committing enough time to any orchestra, any concert, any recording -- and that, if he'd just slow down a little, he could do great things, live up to the hype.

So far, I haven't heard that from him. But maybe this M6 is an exception. I'm not going to rush out and buy it right away, but I'm sure I'll hear it someday. I might even like it. Because, as you know, I prefer quicker tempi in M6 -- the quicker it is over, the better.  :-X
"Life without music is a mistake." Nietzsche

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2008, 06:50:48 PM »
I remember that Haitink recorded about THE most un-sexy "Daphnis & Chloe" imaginable - with Boston, no less!

Offline akiralx

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2008, 12:53:29 PM »
I remember that Haitink recorded about THE most un-sexy "Daphnis & Chloe" imaginable - with Boston, no less!

Never heard that - but his La Mer is superb, and the Nocturnes are pretty good if not as excellent as Monteux's.

By the way, if you like La Mer I recommend two I've heard recently:

  • Gelmetti and the Sydney SO (from their live anniversary ABC box - which also includes a rackety M2 under Klemperer, and a good Der Abschied from DLvDE under Stuart Challender, one of the few classical musicians to die of AIDS)
  • Sinopoli on DG (hard to find now).

    Sinopoli's is the most interesting, and gorgeously played and recorded.

Offline Amphissa

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2008, 10:23:10 PM »
There's quite a funny video on YouTube with Gergiev talking about doing Mahler with the LSO:

Funny --

See him conduct with his toothpick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYnzgHgYAp8.

Not funny --

See him screw up Mahler 8 finale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBsTTX_rW0E.

If he'd take time to actually prepare himself and an orchestra, he might live up to the hype. As it is ......  :P

"Life without music is a mistake." Nietzsche

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2008, 02:38:35 PM »
Yeah, the ending of that particular M8 is pretty bad. However, there WAS an M8 on Youtube with Gergiev/Rotterdam Phil. that was really, REALLY very good -  no miscommunication there (and spectacular tam-tam smashes too). The brief M3 excerpts that are on that LSO LIVE promo video sound perfectly reasonable to me - I'm curious to hear the rest.

Barry
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 03:04:33 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline cilea

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2008, 04:53:45 AM »
Well, Gergiev's M1 and M3 were so bad, M6 would be better just by default. [...]

M1 is the next in the line.

http://lso.co.uk/downloadables/lumps/upload/756-152.pdf
« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 04:55:39 AM by cilea »

Offline Leo K

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2008, 04:28:52 PM »
I have one question regarding this new M6...how is the tam tam...is it obvious (and not hidden in the mix)?  I prefer the tam tam to be well heard (it's why I love the Sanderling).

--Todd

Offline techniquest

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2008, 07:39:10 AM »
Leo, if you like a whopper of a tam-tam, you must try to find the Levine M6 with the LSO; the tam-tam player certainly knows how to play his instrument but, although really loud, it is not a ridiculously unbalanced mess a la Karajan Prokofiev 5...
Meanwhile, I might hear the Gergiev 6 one day, but even at budget price I am not about to buy it. He made such almighty messes of M1 and M3 (the worst performance I have ever heard by a long, long way)...he even managed to spoil Shostakovich 13 at the Proms a couple of years back! Music is of course subjective, but for me Gergiev is off the 'to buy' list.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2008, 07:53:10 AM »
Yes, but Levine/LSO play the tam-tam stroke near the end of the scherzo movement at a full fortissimo (actually, more like triple forte). It's only marked forte there.

Barry

Offline techniquest

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Re: M6: it's Gergiev/LSO by a country mile!
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2008, 09:30:04 AM »
Aha - well that's where you have the advantage: I don't have the score at hand to reference these things. I can only listen. I'll have to compare the M6's I have to see how others interpret this section. Thanks.

 

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