everybody must perform Mahler?

[Dave H]

good idea

Dave H

[Dave H]

to me.

Dave H

[Polarius T]

I think the OP's questions are interesting but were not really picked up by people.

Neither by me just now, I'm afraid, except for just two quick points:

Mahler's music by now is considered the culmination of symphonic tradition. And of course as a conductor the ultimate test and dream also is to be able to get your hands on the masterworks, climb the peaks. What makes Mahler an additional interest (and quite unique in this sense), however, is that he doesn't only represent the "Master" type but also the "Innovator" type, in his late works especially. Most composers belong to one or the other category, not both simultaneously.

The second point is just mere trifles:

it seems that maybe the Scandinavians aren't quite as interested as they once were...

I would say just the opposite: more than ever. In Finland, the conductors active today who more or less regularly include Mahler in their programs with at least four or five domestic orchestras that I know of (and countless international ones) include (just quickly from the top of my mind):

Sakari Oramo
Mikko Franck
Esa-Pekka Salonen
Jukka-Pekka Saraste
Okko Kamu
John Storgårds
Leif Segerstam
Osmo Vänskä
Hannu Lintu
Pietari Inkinen
Eva Ollikainen

(Hey, that’s about five percent of the country’s population conducting Mahler…  ) Of these, Oramo, Salonen, Saraste, and Segerstam have recorded Mahler more or less extensively for major labels.

In Sweden, the tradition goes deep even if it isn’t, as you surmise (but I'm not sure of), quite as extensive today. Horenstein & Talich conducted and recorded Mahler with the (Royal) Stockholm Philharmonic. Their guest conductor-led tradition has continued to this day. The current season will feature the M10 Adagio (with Marc Soustrot), M3 (with Alan Gilbert), M6 (E-P Salonen), and ”Das Lied” (Sakari Oramo). In Göteborg, Sweden’s ”second city,” too, many visitors have done Mahler, also with the city’s Opera Orchestra, although with the Gbg Symphoniker Neeme Järvi even recorded for a major label. But the frequency of performing Mahler will predictably increase with the newly inaugurated principal conductor (a certain Gustavo Dudamel), even if Messiaen will get a place of pride this year. ”Blumine,” however, will be performed under Jurowski, along with M1. Malmö Symphony Orchestra in Sweden’s ”third city” will open its forthcoming season with ”Das Lied” (with Vassily Sinaisky), having concluded this past season with M3 (under Joseph Swensen). So that’s a bunch, I think, in a country that small and with just three major orchestras (two by international standard).

Of the Norwegians no one knows any more (or cares) after they opted out of the EU. I think they also lack orchestral institutions of the needed scale (though this is a bit of a problem for all Scandinavian countries -- you need pretty big forces to play Mahler).

In Denmark the longstanding influence of Segerstam (who to be sure is a Finn) has left a big mark in performance traditions. But every Dane I've ever met was a Mahler fan or at least an appreciator, which says much to me.

Iceland I can't say a thing about. Maybe there's someone from that quirky place reading this forum who can fill in. (I wouldn't be surprised.)

-PT

[barry guerrero]

Of the Norwegians no one knows any more (or cares) after they opted out of the EU. I think they also lack orchestral institutions of the needed scale (though this is a bit of a problem for all Scandinavian countries -- you need pretty big forces to play Mahler).

I think that Litton did M8 in Bergen not too long ago. I saw him do it in Dallas, and he really knew what he was doing. With Litton now taking some fulltime position up there, they'll probably be getting there fair share of Mahler as well. Anyway, thanks for the info.

Barry

[Dave H]

Mahler certainly is played in Iceland. They did the Sixth a few years ago, and this year they're doing the Ruckert-Lieder as well as the Fifth. If they can play Hekla by John Leifs (eight horns, 22 percussion, etc), they can do just about anything by anyone.

Dave H

[Polarius T]

[Pedant alert]*

To just quickly correct what I too made myself complicit in:

"The Scandinavians" are really only the Swedes, Norwegians, and Danes. "Scandinavia" is the peninsula on which those countries are geographically located. Add Finland and Iceland and what you'll have is the Nordic Countries, which is the geopolitical, cultural, and even sociological denomination people usually mean by "Scandinavia" in the English-speaking countries.

[End of pedant alert]

-PT

*(c) stillivor

[Dave H]

I am fascinated to learn that Denmark is located on the same peninsula as Norway and Sweden. I'll tell my friends in Copenhagen that they can tear down that big bridge to Sweden that they just opened a couple of years ago.

Dave H

[Polarius T]

I am fascinated to learn that Denmark is located on the same peninsula as Norway and Sweden. I'll tell my friends in Copenhagen that they can tear down that big bridge to Sweden that they just opened a couple of years ago.

Dave H

You forgot the Pedant Alert. 

While that bridge is actually quite nice, it doesn't quite compensate for the fact that Denmark is strictly speaking not part of the same geological "peninsula" (defined by the mountain range between Sweden and Norway). The terminology in my own language is not enough differentiated on this point I guess.

-PT

[achri-d]

Of the Norwegians no one knows any more (or cares) after they opted out of the EU. I think they also lack orchestral institutions of the needed scale (though this is a bit of a problem for all Scandinavian countries -- you need pretty big forces to play Mahler).

Norway is not a part of the EU and this prevents foreigners to gather knowledge about Mahler activities in Norway? There are some orchestras that play Mahler - and that do it well. Next event for me - September 2008 - is M2 & Mehta in the new opera house of Oslo.

The scandinavian peninsula is Norway and Sweden. Denmark is often - for cultural reasons - included among the scandinavian countries.

Rgds.

[Polarius T]

Norway is not a part of the EU and this prevents foreigners to gather knowledge about Mahler activities in Norway? There are some orchestras that play Mahler - and that do it well. Next event for me - September 2008 - is M2 & Mehta in the new opera house of Oslo.

I lived elsewhere when Sweden and Finland joined the EU (and Norway didn't), and upon returning found it stunning how much news reporting had changed. In the past, what was going on in Norway was often the no. 1 topic in Sweden and no. 2 topic in Finland (where what is going on in Sweden is still the no. 1 topic), but today you won't hear a bleep either through the papers or the telly unless there were casualties (which happens pretty rarely, given this is Norway). Norwegian Mahler performances seem to have suffered this same fate. The state border that's today about 2 hrs or less from where I live might just as well be on the other side of the Mediterranean. The paths still lead to the border but seem to stop right there and go no further:



One thing, however, that remains in the headlines is the new Oslo opera house, which competes with the almost equally new opera houses in where I live today, where I used to live before, and what's next door:


That's the musical Norway for us today.

These are the competitors:







Too bad Mahler didn't write any opera (except for "The Three Pintos). (And even that wasn't by him.)

 

-PT

[achri-d]

Too bad Mahler didn't write any opera (except for "The Three Pintos). (And even that wasn't by him.)

Good to see that other opera houses have Mahler symphonies on the programme. And by the way - what are the currencies of Denmark and Sweden? Rgds.

[Polarius T]

Good to see that other opera houses have Mahler symphonies on the programme. And by the way - what are the currencies of Denmark and Sweden? Rgds.

Sorry, what? Am I missing something or is this Norwegian humor?  And those currencies of course the same as yours (crown) but each with a different convertibility, this being the fiercely independent-minded Vikings we are talking about here.

-PT

[achri-d]

Sorry, what? Am I missing something or is this Norwegian humor?

It's called OT. Rgds.

[Polarius T]

...OT.

Ack, my cardinal sin.

Yet surprising underground correspondencies are sometimes there to be discovered. For instance that "incidence" linking Bix Beiderbecke and Mahler, or what Mahler's got to do with straw huts of Upper Amazonia.

 

-pt

[Psanquin]

Nice photos. I visited the first two competitors opera houses depicted, but where is the third one?