Harding/VPO M10

[barry guerrero]

I know that David wasn't too crazy about this recording either, but I think it's quite recommendable. The VPO seem hugely committed to the work, and the sound quality is far better than usual for a recording that comes out of Vienna's little shoebox concert hall, the Musikverein. Harding is a bit of a Rattle clone; more closely resembling Rattle's latter Berlin recording of M10. He takes all the material between the fourth movement's final expressionistic outburst, and the start of the fifth movement, quite slowly;  just like Rattle/BPO. He also links the last two movements with a single bass drum stroke. And speaking of which, the muted drum (bass drum) doesn't blow you out of the room either. I do agree with David's contention that the big climaxes in the two outer movements are a bit underwhelming - they could have been done better. But neither are they terrible or destructive to the overall "interpretation".

I also agree that Harding is a tad too fast with the middle movement, "Purgatorio". But then again, so is Gielen, and I like Harding's first scherzo much more than Gielen's (Gielen's second scherzo is outstanding, however). For me, Ormandy and Noseda (Chandos) peg the Purgatorio just right.

Well, I could go on and on, but the bottom line is this: you don't need to run out and add this Harding M10 to your collection unless you're an M10 lover (I am), and feel a need to hear pretty much every one that comes along (I do). Also, if like you Rattle/BPO M10, but are rather frustrated with the dry and constricted sound (it is available on a DVD-A), you just might want to trade it for this one. No problems here.

[John Kim]

I agree with Barry that this is a very special M01th from none other than the king of all orchestras, VPO. It is a lean, well streamlined, and in a way "juicy" version. But it shows the virtuosity of the Viennese orchestra at their peak and the sound is amazing. My top picks still go to Rattle/BPO/EMI and Litton/DSO/Delos but this new comer is still pretty competitive.

John,

[Don]

Gorgeous playing for the most part, but kind of an underwhelming performance. I will stick with Ormandy and Sanderling.

I am a M10 fanatic (or so my signature says  ) so of course I had to have it.

[Leo K]

The DVD-A of the EMI Rattle/BPO has much better sound than the CD...I actually haven't heard to 5.1 portion...rather I just play it on my TV in stereo and it sounds ravishing.

One of these days I'll have to try the Harding...I too am a huge M10 fan.

--Todd

[john haueisen]

Is this the completion by Deycke Cooke, Carpenter, Wheeler, or Masseti?
--John H

[Don]

Cooke III

[john haueisen]

Thanks Don!
I guess the fact that I asked which version (or completion, as some call them) shows that I, too, share your appreciation for M10.
I'm going to add this one to my collection.  Thanks for the help.
--John H

[Leo K]

I've been listening to M10's the last few days...revisting recordings I haven't heard in a while.  I have to say the Litten/Carpenter M10 is still quite a powerful performance and beautiful sounding recording...and the new Sieghart/Samale-Mazz recording is just as good...as for as editions go, I like these two completions the most...probably because they find creative (not always successful but riviting) ways to make the inner Scherzo's really fun to listen to, and the climaxes in I and II are better orchestrated.

Out of the Cooke versions, a real sleeper is the Wigglesworth M10 from the BBC Music mag (can't think of the name right now)...wow, what a ravishing string sound which gives the BPO a run for it's money, and the tempos are well judged thoughout, I really love this recording and it will remain one of the ones I reach for the most.  I heard the Gielen M10 for the first time as well...excellant all around with great playing...I need more listens before I can really judge, but I like his way with I, IV and V the most out of the whole performance.  I got started with Levine's Philly account, but I was not moved to continue after the first three movements, the recording didn't have the great quality I have been hearing in the others...I will return to this at a later time. 

Soon, I move on to the "thinner" M10's...the Wheeler and the Mazetti II...these also rate high for my appreciation of the M10, the yang opposite the Yin of the Carpenter and S/M editions.

--Todd

[john haueisen]

Nice comments on the M10s, Todd.
We could all stand to revisit our M10 libraries.  M10 grows on you.
--John H

[Don]

An M 10 a week keeps one healthy and great exercise for the mind. 

[barry guerrero]

In my musicologically uneducated opinion, Mahler 10 is THE last musicology problem of any great significance or relevance. I'm sure early music buffs would strongly disagree with that. And thus, my reply to them would be this: there's a reason it's called EARLY music.

The problem is that it's over-scored in some spots, and greatly under-scored in others. We also need to make the orchestration as convincingly Mahler-sounding as is humanly possible. The percussion parts need to be greatly augmented, as well as made to sound more idiomatic of Mahler too. It's a great work as it is. Thus, it deserves the effort.

Barry

_______________________________

Immer wieder Polka

[Leo K]

Barry, I agree with your opinion regarding the M10 as the last significant problem of musicology.  Mahler's 10th is worth the effort to keep rebirthing...on a personal note Mahler composed enough for me to feel this is possibly my favorite work of his, even in it's unfinished state...I am thankful he got as far as he did.

For me, the problem points, such as the Scherzo's, are very facsinating, because the music suggests countless sound worlds...among the various editions, I like what S/M and Carpenter do to make the scherzo's jump with detail...granted, like Barry says, many sections are over or under orchestrated and this can be beautifully frusterating, for lack of a better description.

Now that I think about it, I recall liking what Mazetti and Wheeler do with the Scherzo's as well...the thin texture suggest more than what is there sometimes, which can be good in certain sections, the trios for an example...I'm actually pretty happy with how the trios are orchestrated in all the editions, but more can be done.  Barry has had some good ideas for the 1st scherzo, in particular, the transition into the 1st trio passage, which I also agree could be more "defined" (if thats the right word).  It may need more than an orchestration fix.  If I remember correctly Barry suggests the primary melodic line leading to the trio could be expanded or extended to grant the listener a more defined transition?  Hopefully I am not too off base your idea Barry.

--Todd

[Don]

The stripped down, spare Wheeler, while not as colorful and as "exciting" as other versions does allow some insights into the structure of the work and really exposes all the places you just know Mahler would have expanded or changed. In that respect it is a most fascinating listen. Truly, if you just let it speak, it is a satisfying whole as well. Only when compared to more elaborate versions, does it pale.

I have yet to warm to the Samale/Mazzuca version and never cared much for Mazzetti's versions. Carpenter, especially in the Litton recording makes a convincing case, but is a bit over done in places. Litton's excellent recording literally rescued this version as it was rarely performed and was only recorded once and quite inadequately.

I would agree with earlier posters, the two scherzi are the problematic parts as is the "longeurs' of the last 1/4 of the finale, I think Mahler would have done some judicious pruning here and there in the finale. Samale/Mazzuca's second scherzo is way too over done in my opinion.

My "favorite" or the one I turn to the most is the Sanderling recording of the second Cooke version. Sanderling makes a few changes that enhance the work and turns in a most convincing performance.

I am a broken record, I know, but I am convinced this symphony would have been considered his masterpiece if he lived to complete it. Where he would have gone from there, is the stuff of fantasy.

And isn't it fun to sort out all the editions and such?? Maybe Leonard Slatkin will do a composite recording of it like his famous compilation performances of Pictures at an Exhibition. 

[john haueisen]

Don just said:

I am a broken record, I know, but I am convinced this symphony would have been considered his masterpiece if he lived to complete it. Where he would have gone from there, is the stuff of fantasy.

I still haven't finished Henry-Louis de la Grange's Volume IV on Mahler, but I can affirm that his chief point is that despite the many setbacks:  his heart condition, Alma's disaffection, Putzi's death, and leaving the opera post, Mahler was very much alive and vibrant. 
He was looking ahead to taking advantage of the large amounts of money made during his time in America, planning a new summer house, and "chomping at the bit" to have more time for composing.

Thus, I think Don's exactly right that M10 likely would have been his masterpiece.  I'd love to know what might have followed after that.
--John H

[john haueisen]

It's been almost a month since Barry initiated this discussion of Harding's M10.
Thanks to the lively comments of Leo K, Don, and Barry, I went forward and got my own copy.
I have to agree with most of the comments they made.  It is a little understated, and the percussion parts need to be "beefed up."
Overall though, it reminded me of how very much alive and moving forward Mahler was as he wrote 10.  Taken part by part the music often does not sound like typical Mahler, but then you hear grand themes coming through, amid the suffering, uncertainty and almost chaos, as he moves to a new sound in music.
John H