Is Eschenbach trully a great Mahlerian?

[alpsman]

I listened( and watched) in a burn dvd M5 with Eschenbach/Philadelphia from a concert in Japan in 2005. This was a great performance. The sound of the Philadelphians is full, warm and espressive. Eschenbach captures the Vienna fin-de-siecle mood perfectly. He plays the first outburtst after the fanfare sostenuto without hurry.
The scherzo has great virtuosity and the middle section, that cello lament which Abbado played breathtaking in a live concert I had attend, is trully Klagende.
The Adagieto is about 12 minutes and for me there is nothing wrong with this. Timing tells not the whole truth, it is the phrasing and the sonority that counts. The philys played this very well also under Levine.
The finale has joy, virtuosity and majesty and humor in perfect analogies.

So after a rather wining M6 and efforts in M8 and M9( these performances i know), I think Eschenbach can be considered a serious mahlerian, much better in my opinion than Gergiev for whom I continue to thing it's not (my) "natural"mahlerian.

[John Kim]

I heard him conducting M3 (can't recall the orchestra), M5 (Houston SO), M6 (NYPO and PO), M9 (A German orchestra) and can attest they all sounded great. He is somewhere between MTT and Tennstedt with lots of flexible tempos, mostly on a slow side. His Mahler is not certainly boring, never dull. I just wish that he has recorded more Mahler with top notch orchestras.

John

[Jules]

Some years ago, he conducted in my town a beautiful program consisting of Schönberg Verklärte Nacht and M1. The Phildalephia O. was magnificent, and I still remember the real mahlerian taste of that performance.
As for Gergiev as a mahlerian, I have attended two performaces of him: I liked neither M2 nor M3.. I don't think this kind of sound, rough, uneven.. is fitting for Mahler music.

[Damfino]

I consider Eschenbach a serious Mahlerian. I heard him conduct M2 here in Houston when he was the main conductor here 10-12 years ago, which I found quite exciting (soloists were Florence Quivar and Ying Huang). He also recorded a superb (to my ears) M1 with the Houston Symphony while they were on tour in Europe (not sure that CD is in print now). I quite like the M6 with the PO and am looking forward to more.

I don't know that I find him to be on the slow side for the most part. he certainly tends that way with movements like the M6 andante and apparently the M5 adagietto. His 2nd movement in M1 is one of those that is somewhat slow, but then picks up speed (sort of like Bernstein).  However, the opening movement of M6 is quite brisk. I seem to remember the Totenfeier of M2 concert being exciting and not slow. Don't remember how fast or slow the other movements were. I think he tends to sort of wallow in big lyrical movements. Remember the criticism of his Saint-Saens organ symphony for its drawn-out poco adagio. I still found that performance to be exciting (the SACD organ had a lot to do with it).

[Leo K]

I would love to hear an Eschenback M2 or M3.


--Todd

[Last_Evolution]

Eschenbach will be conducting M3 with CPO this Thursday/Friday (4th/5th December).
http://www.ceskafilharmonie.cz/en/content_koncerty2.php?datum=1228345200

[sperlsco]

I consider Eschenbach a serious Mahlerian. I heard him conduct M2 here in Houston when he was the main conductor here 10-12 years ago, which I found quite exciting (soloists were Florence Quivar and Ying Huang). He also recorded a superb (to my ears) M1 with the Houston Symphony while they were on tour in Europe (not sure that CD is in print now). I quite like the M6 with the PO and am looking forward to more.

I'm another Houstonian, but was never able to see Eschenbach conduct Mahler.  However, I really love all of his Mahler recordings.  The M1 recording is on the Koch label and should be available (perhaps Berkshire Record Outlet still has it).  It is one of my first tier favorites.  He also had a phenomenal M5 that was made available to HSO subscribers a while back (recorded on tour in Vienna).  The release predated my subscription, but I have a burned copy of it.  The adagietto is quite long at 12+ minutes, but still utterly enjoyable (I prefer a sub-10' one, but the longer ones can still work fine IMO).  The first two movements are intense and well-played.  The finale is absolutely thrilling -- one of the best I have heard.  His Philly M6 is easily one of my favorites.  I also have a CD-R of an M9 with the German NDR SO, which I believe to be a subscriber-type release like the HSO M5.  The M9 has long outer movements and an intense R-B -- another excellent performance. 

So Eschenbach makes my list of great Mahlerians.  I would have loved a few more SACD releases with the Philly O, though! 

PS - I've had mixed feelings about some Opera-share downloads I've heard -- but I'm ignoring those. 

[John Kim]

Eschenbach once led Boston Symphony Orch. playing Mahler First at Tanglewood in early 90's. That was by far the greatest and most unique performance of this symphony I ever heard. The slow passages were extremely slow but he almost rushed through the fast parts (e.g., the coda of IV). It had a strange effect of making the audience, during the slow passages, to anxiously anticipate for climaxes with a great expectation , and vice versa. The result was a concert filled with suspense and thrills, fully satisfying the audience in the end.

John,

[je-b]

Regarding Eschenbach's Mahlerian credentials: Has anyone of you checked out his M8 with the the Orchestre de Paris on YouTube?

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7F4584970D40FBE5 (YouTube playlist link)

It has probably the slowest ending I've ever heard in M8 - and a particularly interesting twist regarding the altos' entrance at 6:20 in in the last part of the videos. 
Those Orchestre de Paris videos are extremely stylish by the way - they even seem to have done away with the professional symphony orchestra's traditional white tie outfit entirely...

[Dave H]

Is he a "great" Mahlerian? No. To be a great Mahler conductor you have to be a great conductor, period. Eschenbach is certainly not a great conductor by any stretch of the imagination--he is an interesting musician who sometimes has good ideas, and who delivers the occasional outstanding performance. It is for this same reason that I categorically deny the notion of "Mahler conductors" or "Wagner conductors"--i.e. Horenstein, Goodall, and their ilk--because the closer you listen the more pitiful their few paltry ideas become, and more glaring their general incompetence appears.

Dave H

[barry guerrero]

I just picked up his new Philly Mahler 2, and I think it's pretty darn good. I generally don't like expansive performances, but he pulls them off better than most. I wish he and Philly would recording M3 and M9 as well.

Barry

[oscar]

I have just seen Esenbach in 2 concerts with the Phily orchestra.

He is a very poor conductor, with no technique at all.  At the start of the first concert, Beethoven´s Egmont, he fluffed  the first entry. Not to mention a racious Schubert 9 and a Bruckner 6 without an once of finesse.

Let us remember that he was fired simultaneously from 2 orchestras: Phily and Paris, quite a unique feat that I had never befopre seen with anyone.

[barry guerrero]

"Let us remember that he was fired simultaneously from 2 orchestras: Phily and Paris, quite a unique feat that I had never before seen with anyone."

I would take that with a grain of salt. He'll continue to guest conductor pretty much everywhere, and plenty of other places will ask him to take on a full-time post. When this sort of thing happens, conductors often switch over to opera for a while. And while few of the recordings Eschenbach has made in Philadelphia would be consider top recommendations by most critics (personally, I like his S-S. "Organ" symphony the best), ask yourself who would have done better over such a broad range of repertoire. Personally, I would take Eschenbach over Dutoit any day. As a performer myself, I find Eschenbach easier to follow than many other big-name conductors. Frankly, I can barely make out the beat - or much of anything else - when watching Rattle or Abbado. I think Philly, or any place else, could do far worse than Eschenbach.

Barry

[Damfino]

Frankly, I can barely make out the beat - or much of anything else - when watching Rattle or Abbado. I think Philly, or any place else, could do far worse than Eschenbach.

When I heard/watched Eschenbach conduct here in Houston, I thought his technique looked good to my untrained eyes. That is to say, his movements were clear and precise. I remember a performance in which he conducted La Valse, and looked like the embodiment of the music. Every time my wife hears La Valse, she pictures Eschenbach on the podium. I agree with Barry that Abbado looks like he would be hard to follow as his movements seem to me to be jerky. Solti seemed that way, too, as if they conduct more with their elbows, which makes their hands or baton difficult to follow. or, so it would seem to me.

[sperlsco]

He'll be taking the Schleswig-Holstein Festival Orchestra on a US tour in 2010.  It will be Eschenbach's first performance in Houston since he was the Music Director of the Houston Symphony.  They are all touring with Lang Lang -- of whom I only have good things to say because he has performed on Sesame Street.