First Question

[gd]

Dear all,

Several friends of mine have been on the board for a while, and I thought it was about time I started haunting, or better yet register.

OK, to inaugurate: one question.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that Mahler ended his first symphony with a quote from the scherzo of Beethoven's Ninth?  OK, it's only two notes, but an obvious two notes.


Gregg

[barry guerrero]

It's like a cross between what you're thinking, and the very end of Bruckner 5. Check out B5's ending some time.

Barry

[Dave H]

I don't think you can make that stretch: it's only an octave drop, and music is full of them. The scherzo of the New World Symphony, for example, is even closer. The last two notes of Mahler 1 are, in my view, a final humorous comment on the "bird call" motive of the falling fourth that features so prominently in the first movement (and is recalled in the finale).

Dave H

[barry guerrero]

Yeah, I agree. But I was thinking more in terms of how the timpani hold the "pedal point" at the end of the Bruckner 5th. Mahler does the same thing, except that he has his horns "whoop" upwards, and he doubles the timpani with bass drum and triangle (not to mention the numerous cymbal crashes along the way).

[gd]

Thanks for the replies.  I wonder, since we can hear these works anytime we'd like that it might lead to some spurious connections.  Anyway, I can't help but hear it.  The Bruckner connection is interesting, I am more familiar with Bruckner than Mahler, but it never struck me.  Of course I used to play the scherzo from the ninth a lot for my kids (so that means I played it a lot, they seem to like repetition.....),  some how my toddlers never got into Bruckner?

Gregg

[Dave H]

How come they never got into Bruckner? If I caught anyone in my family playing the scherzo of Bruckner's Ninth for their kids I'd be on the phone to Child Protective Services in a minute!  My mother started with the Can-Can from Gaite Parisienne--she would dance to it while dusting. Now there's a way to get your kids into classical music generally!

Dave H

[john haueisen]

Gosh, Dave--the Can-can?
I'm stunned--I never expected that.

[Dave H]

Why not? It's a great tune. I still love it.

Dave H

[john haueisen]

Why not?
Does anyone know who wrote the can-can, or is it just a sort of French folk tune?

[Dave H]

It is the "Infernal Chorus" (as in "hell") from Offenbach's "Orpheus in the Underworld." Rosenthal used it, sans voices, in his ballet based on tunes from Offenbach operettas. If you don't know the original operetta, you should. Too much Mahler is very bad for you.

Dave H

[john haueisen]

Kudos to your excellent memory, Dave.
Now I remember that it was from Orpheus in the Underworld.  Why did I not remember that!
It's different from Orfeo et Euridyce, isn't it?--with the Dance of the Blessed Spirits? 

[Leo K]

When I was a wee lad, a music class in elementry school introduced classical by playing the Disney "Peter and the Wolf"(Prokoviev) film, as well as putting an album of Tschaikovsky's Nutcracker on during christmas, and making us kids dance to some of the sections.  I must say these two works impressed me greatly as a kid...but it wasn't until I played some Mozart in orchestra class that my obsession started.

--Todd

[merlin]

is indeed from Orfeo ed Eurydice, but it is by Christoph Gluck.  I used to play the flute part with a piano accompanist.

[john haueisen]

Thanks Merlin--just my "Gluck" to forget such a famous composer.