more dumbness from Gramophone: their M8 survey

[barry guerrero]

Whatever. While I certainly find the Boulez M8 to be pretty interesting, no-way would I place it at the top of the heap. For one thing, as John Kim has pointed out, why is it that Part 1 has plenty of organ, but there's waaaay too little organ at the end of Part II? What about the fortissimo tam-tam smashes at the end of the symphony? For the most part, all you can hear are the cymbals that double them. The offstage trumpets sound just a tad wimpy to me also. I like Boulez's protracted ending of Part I (Gloria!!!), and Johan Botha is great with the difficult tenor solos. But do those pluses make it a front runner?

I also disagree with Ken Smith's assertion that the ubiquitous Solti M8 is a better "budget" buy than the Antoni Wit one on Naxos. Sure, Wit's Mahler 8 costs more than the Solti, but I would rank it higher than either Solti or Boulez. I believe that Dave gave it a 10/10 at Classicstoday (if not, it received a strong ranking regardless). I would also place the "Great Rec. of the Cnty." remastering of Tennstedt's excellent studio recording above Solti and Boulez as well. Why is this that Tennstedt's isn't better loved in England?

Two positives: Smith had very kind things to say about the Bertini Mahler 8 (so why not take it more seriously?), and he rated the Bernstein DVD of M8 above the Tennstedt. In his '90s remake of Mahler 8, Tennstedt greatly lengthened his "interpretation" in all the wrong spots (pretty much every harmonic cadence point).

Seriously folks, here's the point: Why not hold off on doing such a round-up until both the MTT/SFSO and Gergiev/LSO (St. Paul's Cathedral) M8 recordings get issued.

[techniquest]

Wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the Naxos / Wit M8, a truly excellent set which is, imvho, way above both the Solti and Boulez. Any Mahler 8 fan who hasn't yet heard the Wit recording, it really is that good!

[John Kim]

For one thing, as John Kim has pointed out, why is it that Part 1 has plenty of organ, but there's waaaay too little organ at the end of Part II? What about the fortissimo tam-tam smashes at the end of the symphony? For the most part, all you can hear are the cymbals that double it. The offstage trumpets sound just a tad wimpy too. I like Boulez's protracted ending of Part I (Gloria!!!), and Jon Botha is great with the difficult tenor solos. But do those pluses make it a front runner?

Barry,

I'd have given the Boulez a higher score had it not been for the weak organ in Part II. It really was disappointing.

You mentioned the upcoming MTT/SFSO and Gergiev/LSO, but there will be a live recording of Schwarz/SSO coming out soon too.

Yes, I would put Bertini and Tennstedt above Solti and Boulez, but I will also add Horenstsin/LSO/BBC on the list.

Best,

John,

[barry guerrero]

"but there will be a live recording of Schwarz/SSO coming out soon too."

Where did you find out about that out?!? I believe that they have a pretty huge pipe organ in Liverpool, but what about the one in Benaroya Hall in Seattle? Is it also on that Artek label?  If the sound quailty is up to his 7th (David really likes it, by the way), that might really be good. However, having Jane Eaglan and Vincent Cole in the cast sort of scares me off. Are you sure that you're not thinking of the Shostakovich 8th, which Artek just released?

Barry

[John Kim]

Barry,

I was there at the concert of Schwarz/SSO M8th and saw a sign that says, "Tonight's concert will be recorded.". I guess it will be on the Artek label you mentioned.

The performance was really good, but for strange reasons Schwarz rushed through the final pages of Part II. that has a pure orchestral part. I don't know, but maybe I was expecting a slower, more grandiose ending and that made it feel like rushed. The organ was in great form too. Jane Eaglen did fine. I have Schwarz/SSO/Artek Shosy 8th and like it very much, except for the coda of V. where Schwarz doesn't slow down the tempo enough. I also like the way he treats the opening movt. at an incredible 29 min. The orchestra sounds lush and beautiful in this recording.

John,

[Leo K]

For one thing, as John Kim has pointed out, why is it that Part 1 has plenty of organ, but there's waaaay too little organ at the end of Part II? What about the fortissimo tam-tam smashes at the end of the symphony? For the most part, all you can hear are the cymbals that double it. The offstage trumpets sound just a tad wimpy too. I like Boulez's protracted ending of Part I (Gloria!!!), and Jon Botha is great with the difficult tenor solos. But do those pluses make it a front runner?

Barry,

I'd have given the Boulez a higher score had it not been for the weak organ in Part II. It really was disappointing.

You mentioned the upcoming MTT/SFSO and Gergiev/LSO, but there will be a live recording of Schwarz/SSO coming out soon too.

Yes, I would put Bertini and Tennstedt above Solti and Boulez, but I will also add Horenstsin/LSO/BBC on the list.

Best,

John,

Ditto on the Horenstein John, I was just revisting this recording last night and it blew me away.  I also rate the Rattle M8 (on DVD--A) and Inbal M8 very high.  I really do love the Boulez despite the problems.  Bertini is indeed a great M8.  Think I'll pick up the Witt real soon.

--Todd

[barry guerrero]

The Inbal M8 is very interesting, but you have to turn it way, WAAAAAY up! It's a truly low level recording. I think you need a pretty healthy amp. for it.

Barry

[alpsman]

The Inbal M8 is very interesting, but you have to turn it way, WAAAAAY up! It's a truly low level recording. I think you need a pretty healthy amp. for it.

Yes!!
 This is exactly the way we must record and reproduce recordings at home. Low level recording and strong amplifying. The other way round is a dull, compressed, uninvolving sound which damage the soundworld of Mahler and others great romantics.

[Psanquin]

I also found this review disappointing. Why on earth does the reviewer ignore Sinopoli's Eighth? It is not mentioned at all.

[barry guerrero]

Sinopoli's Mahler 8 is quite good, even if it is a bit under-tempo in Part 1. The women are terrific! Unfortunately, the men aren't quite as good. Keith Lewis is nothing to write home about. Still, the Sinopoli 8th should have received mention.

Barry