Should I track down both? - M7

[Dyolf]

Hi
Have always had my eyes open on the used market for the Klemperer M7 (100 min.) on vinyl or CD, and here the other day I read that Scherchen had done this work in a mindblowing 60 minutes. Are the two of them both bonkers, ore are there excuses for both interpretations. Also, what Scherchen M7 is the one to opt for; I think there is four different out there.
Steen

[barry guerrero]

The really fast Scherchen M7 has poor sound and bad playing with tons of mistakes. The Klemperer is just outrageously slow from start to finish. Just be aware of those facts.

Barry

[Dyolf]

Barry
Yeah slow. That is quite obvious. But I am kind of a Klemperer buff, and I have read reviews regarding this recording, saying that it was first after hearing his M7 that this music started to make sense. And I must admit, that M7 is the mahler piece I regard the least.
How is the sound recording and the playing?
Steen

[klingsor]

Barry
Yeah slow. That is quite obvious. But I am kind of a Klemperer buff, and I have read reviews regarding this recording, saying that it was first after hearing his M7 that this music started to make sense. And I must admit, that M7 is the mahler piece I regard the least.
How is the sound recording and the playing?
Steen

I can't vouch for the playing, since it's been a while, but the recorded sound I remember being excellent as it is in most of Klemperer's EMI recordings [I'm an OK fan and collector].
The performance is slow, yes, almost perversely slow. As I said elsewhere, the recording must be heard to be believed.

[barry guerrero]

I've never been a big fan of the Penguin Guide, but one review from years ago described Klemp's M7 as like hearing Strauss' "Elektra" in slow motion. That's a great description. It's interesting in only a tiring and perverted sense - well, to me anyway. Others can disagree. But I certainly don't think that Klemperer somehow makes the work appear more coherent - far from it. He was simply old and tired when the recording was made; falling asleep at the podium. That's the sad truth.

[Dyolf]

Found a guy in Germany who had both Klemp and Scherchen in addition to some other interesting vinyl (Neumann/Czech/Ludwig/M3). I guess its like the film reviews. On a scale from 1 to 10, its the ones in the middle section that are mostly boring, but the 10´ers and the 1´ers are equally interesting. I refuse to believe that the old maestro did that kind of interpretation because he was "old and tired"
Steen

[barry guerrero]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade. In the end, one can believe whatever they want; either the performance speaks to you, or it doesn't. But there's plenty of written biographical material - eyewitness accounts - that can substantiate that Klemperer was literally falling asleep at some of his very last recording sessions. It may very well be that Klemp. meant the Mahler 7 just the way he recorded it. But in no way can I believe that he would have conducted it that way in his younger years. He was actually a very zippy conductor in earlier times.  After all, Klemperer was at the world premiere in Prague. And while Mahler's own timings weren't super fast by any means (the ink was still wet, and the piece was notoriously difficult to perform), they nowhere approached the glacial timings of Klemperer's EMI recording. But hey, if you like it, you like it! I only responded because you asked the question; so I offered an opinion. The rest is up to you.

[Damfino]

Posted by Dyolf:

And I must admit, that M7 is the Mahler piece I regard the least.

For a long time I did not care for the 7th. Looking back, I do not know what i did not like about it, as I quite like it now. I do know that the recording that led me to a "eureka!" moment with the symphony was the Kubilek one from his DG set. The Kubilek 7 was rather fast, and even though I do not generally listen to such a fast performance of M7, the speed of that recording somehow helped me finally grasp the greatness of it. I mention this because if you're not that fond of the 7th, it would seem to me that a performance that is almsot legendary for its slowness is not likely IMO to bring you any closer to a higher regard for M7.

[klingsor]

The recording that won me over was the Haitink on Philips LPs. It has a distinct atmosphere about it that works very well.

M7 is my second least favorite of the symphonies only because I just can't warm up to the finale, no matter who conducts or plays it. I love the first 4 movements though, esp I & II 

And Barry G is correct about Klemperer being in poor shape when he recorded this work. Klemp's earliest recorded performances show a very vibrant conductor. None of his other Mahlers on EMI, nor the Bruckners feature these kinds of bizarre tempo choices.

[Damfino]

Posted bu Klingsor:

M7 is my second least favorite of the symphonies only because I just can't warm up to the finale, no matter who conducts or plays it. I love the first 4 movements though, esp I & II

I'm not crazy about the finale of the 7th either. It just somehow seems to me to not belong with the other movements. Like you, I give Mahler a pass on this because I like the rest of the symphony so much (particularly II & IV).

[barry guerrero]

I have the opposite reaction. The finale is fantastic, and echt-Mahler to boot. Think Haydn; think humor; think tounge in cheek. It paves the way from the darkness of his previous 7 movements (I'm leaving out the second Nachtmusik), and dumps us on the doorstep of the mighty 8th symphony. More conductors now are taking the second Nachtmusik quicker, which makes for a more natural transition to the finale. All I can tell you is that I really love it. Again, Mahler's kaleidoscopic orchestration is what truly makes it go.

Barry

[je-b]

I friend of mine and I are currently going through some kind of "M7 frenzy", sampling recordings by the dozen, comparing likes and dislikes.
We both would love to hear the famed / notorious Klemperer EMI M7 - if only for the fun of listening to a uniquely different take on a piece we both know quite well.

As this one is being sold at outrageously high prices on eBay / Amazon marketplace, I dare to ask if there's a kind soul here who could provide me with a "less expensive" way of obtaining this recording.
Please pm me if you can help. That would be greatly appreciated! 

[Mackjay]

If you sign on to Melomaniacos you can get the Klemp M7 very cheap (free). A great site for rare recordings:

https://melomaniacos.com/search.php?por=0&buscapor=on&keywords=mahler+7&mod=0&mode=on&crit=0&date_ini=&date_fin=

[John Kim]

If you folks want to fall asleep (which is not a bad idea when it comes to Night Music ), try the Klemperer! I guarantee you'll be in a deep sleep half way through the first movt. 

OTOH, if you can hold up yourself you can hear lots of details in this recording; they are so much so that it sounds like an entirely different symphony.

I bet that's what Klemperer was after  .

John,

[Leo K]

Nighty night