Author Topic: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.  (Read 16959 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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Hey, it showed up at my store today for $61. I had no idea that it was being released yet. There's no mention of them being made into SACD. The back simply states SBM (Super Bit Mapping) and DSD (Digital Stream something-or-another). Indeed, the front side says Carnegie Hall on them (but the 8th was recorded in London, and "DLvdE" in Tel Aviv).

Barry

Offline sbugala

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2009, 01:26:01 PM »
Barry,
    Let me know what the inner packaging is like. If it's got perks like the original album art, decent program notes, etc. I may get it for that reason alone.  I've already got the tye-dyed version. It may lame, but sometimes I break down and get stuff if it's got cool perks.  Or I go retro and track down the original albums.

Steve

Offline John Kim

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2009, 03:07:48 PM »
$61 is a pretty darn good value for this set  :o.

Lenny's first cycle will always remain near the top, everything in the set except for the 5th. Let me be bold: this M3rd and M6th are hands on the best ever recorded.

But I need to confirm that the sound has been improved.

John,

Offline John Kim

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2009, 03:15:55 PM »
You should know that so far there have been THREE different reincarnations of Lenny/Sony Mahler cycle. The very first CBS release, Bernstein Royal Ed., and finally Bernstein Century. I can assure you that each edition sounds different from the others. My preference is the first release that seemed to have been directly remastered from the original tapes w/o gimmicks. OTOH, while it sounds most detailed of the three, the latest version is occasionally marred by too much artificial postprocessing. I just hope Sony engineers have found a natural way to preserve the tapes in the newer version.

John,

P.S> Actually, I forgot to count the Japanese SACD edition. This is by far the best sounding of the four.

Offline sperlsco

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2009, 05:20:14 PM »
The back simply states ... and DSD (Digital Stream something-or-another).
Barry

This makes it likely that the remastering source for this set is the recent Japanese SACD releases.  I can attest to how good those sound -- even the CD layers. 
Scott

Offline John Kim

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 06:04:02 PM »
We can get it at a price as low as under $50.00!! ;D

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001TIQT98/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&qid=1239817744&sr=1-8&condition=new

.. I am tempted...really  :'(

John,

Offline sbugala

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2009, 06:55:33 PM »
You should know that so far there have been THREE different reincarnations of Lenny/Sony Mahler cycle. The very first CBS release, Bernstein Royal Ed., and finally Bernstein Century. I can assure you that each edition sounds different from the others. My preference is the first release that seemed to have been directly remastered from the original tapes w/o gimmicks. OTOH, while it sounds most detailed of the three, the latest version is occasionally marred by too much artificial postprocessing. I just hope Sony engineers have found a natural way to preserve the tapes in the newer version.

John,

P.S> Actually, I forgot to count the Japanese SACD edition. This is by far the best sounding of the four.

I've read your thoughts on it awhile back, and I agree. They do sound different.  Although the first go around, pre-Royal Edition, is the one I know least.  Sometimes, I honestly prefer the LP sound over any of them, like in the M3.  I'm hoping this will be better all around. 

Offline John Kim

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2009, 07:15:47 PM »
Don't buy the Royal edition. It has the worst sound, foggy, unfocused, and lacking details.

John,

Offline Russell

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2009, 08:48:47 PM »
You should know that so far there have been THREE different reincarnations of Lenny/Sony Mahler cycle. The very first CBS release, Bernstein Royal Ed., and finally Bernstein Century. I can assure you that each edition sounds different from the others. My preference is the first release that seemed to have been directly remastered from the original tapes w/o gimmicks. OTOH, while it sounds most detailed of the three, the latest version is occasionally marred by too much artificial postprocessing. I just hope Sony engineers have found a natural way to preserve the tapes in the newer version.

John,

P.S> Actually, I forgot to count the Japanese SACD edition. This is by far the best sounding of the four.

There was also a box set (http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Complete-Symphonies-Anna-Reynolds/dp/B0000589BP/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1239914572&sr=1-2), but I'm not sure of the provenance of the recordings.  (I suspect they're the Bernstein Century discs.)  In any case, the Japanese SACD edition, as you say, sounds the best of all, and those DSD-remastered recordings are likely the source for the CDs in the new box (as Scott said).

Russell

Offline sbugala

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 05:23:50 AM »
Okay, I got my new set today. So far, I like the sound better than the Bernstein Century edition. There is a difference. One weird thing is I admired how many of the Century discs had nice tracks within movements. Those are gone this time around.  Also, the M8 fits on one disc now.  Lieder are gone as well, even though it seems like they could've fit on some discs.  Back into the mix is the nice Remembering Mahler audio documentary. 

It'll have to be brief, but here's some quick audio hits. The bits of M8 I heard seem much improved in sound, with tighter sound, rather than the lame, diffuse sound of the Royal Edition and Century issues.  M3 sounds better than the Century version which I thought sounded too tamed down, but it doesn't have the harshness of the R.E.   Instruments seem spotlighted in some cases, but recede back into a nice mix later. Strings are tighter, but more euphonius...a great improvement over the typical Columbia sound. 

I look forward to others' perspectives who articulate these things a bit better than me. 

Offline John Kim

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 10:08:07 PM »
Here is how DH reacted to this latest box set: He does mention the sound has improved, especially for the M2, M5, and M8.

GUSTAV MAHLER
Symphonies Nos. 1-10 (Adagio only); Das Lied von der Erde; Gustav Mahler Remembered (interviews)
Various soloists

New York Philharmonic
Israel Philharmonic
London Symphony Orchestra

Leonard Bernstein

Sony Classical- 88697453692(CD)
Reference Recording - This One; Bertini (EMI); Chailly (Decca)
 
Performance 10/Sound 8
 
First, let's understand why this reissue is a typical example of major-label stupidity (no, they never learn). If you're going to celebrate Bernstein's Sony recordings of Mahler, why not include them all? For example, Des Knaben Wunderhorn was a major recording, ripe for remastering, and the various song cycles included in the previous symphony box have all disappeared in this reissue. So have the internal tracks that allow you to navigate within movements. There is no excuse for having the first movement of the Third Symphony alone on a single disc when there's plenty of additional material available that could have been included. Finally, the two-disc cardboard slipcases have their openings at the spine-end, making it very, very difficult to get the discs out and replace them. What moron plans these things? What's so challenging about taking all of Bernstein's Mahler, remastering it, and putting it in a box? It's really incomprehensible!

I had to get that rant out of the way because these really are landmark recordings, and there are in fact some important additions this time around: specifically, the Israel Philharmonic Das Lied von der Erde (with Ludwig and Kollo the excellent soloists), and the complete "Mahler Remembered" interviews with colleagues who played under Mahler (as well as his daughter, Anna). This is billed as receiving its first release on CD, which of course is nonsense. It was included in the New York Philharmonic's own Mahler box some years ago.

Most importantly, the remastering has dramatically improved the sound of some of the most problematic recordings: the Second (NYPO version), Fifth, Eighth, and Das Lied all sound substantially more vivid and present than ever before, to the point where these interpretations really do remain extremely competitive even today, when new Mahler recordings are a dime a dozen. Certainly the performances of Symphonies Nos. 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9 remain benchmark interpretations by any standard.

It's fashionable today to downplay Bernstein's contribution to the Mahler renaissance, and to over-rate the significance of predecessors such as Walter, Mitropoulos, and Horenstein. Important though they may have been (in spots), not only did their Mahler performances not matter in the same way that Bernstein's did, the recorded evidence shows why: Bernstein was demonstrably superior in this music than they were, if by that we mean able to realize the composer's directives in a technically superior and idiomatically stylish way. It's particularly silly to exaggerate the importance of the fact that Bernstein's predecessors were "playing the music" in concert. So what? The handful of people that attend live events do not a popular revolution make. It was the systematic release of the complete symphony cycle by a major label with serious distribution that made the difference to the vast majority of listeners, most of whom never would get a chance to hear the music live.

These interpretations are particularly important because they completely belie Bernstein's reputation as an indulgent artist given over to excess and emotional exaggeration. In fact, by today's standards, what Bernstein gives us here is Mahler that captures all of the music's extremes of excitement and color while never losing sight of the music's structure and carefully planned proportions. Bernstein's Mahler is, in fact, shapely. Nothing that he does lacks clear justification in the printed page. I can point to countless examples of recent Mahler conductors who are both more self-indulgent and less observant of detail than Bernstein ever was--Levine, Segerstam, Sinopoli, Rattle, and Norrington among them--without being notably more in sync with the music's expressive point.

In short, what Bernstein gave us was the total Mahlerian package, and while he did better some of these performances in his DG cycle (notably Symphonies Nos. 1 and 5), these first versions have lost none of their freshness or sense of discovery. As such, they are irreplaceable, and incomparable.


--David Hurwitz



 

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 07:44:24 AM »
I absolutely could not agree more. I think that that this is an excellent review. I'm also happy to read that the 8th and "DLvdE" both sound better now.
Barry
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 07:50:10 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline sbugala

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2009, 02:20:03 PM »
Although I still haven't really cranked certain sections, I'm pleased with the sonic improvement. In previous incarnations, I liked Bernstein's Columbia cycle despite the M5 and M8. The differences are really nice.  I usually like William Vacchiano's playing style, but I loathed his M5 with Bernstein.  The harsh recording made it painful to listen to. Now, it sounds like a completely different take.  Tuttis sound much better.  It's still not the best, but it's so much better than it was.  It's almost like one of those home improvement makeover shows.

Despite the sets flaws Dave and I mentioned regarding waste of recorded space, I'm pleased enough to wonder what could be done with some of Bernstein's other previous releases.  Keep the engineer who remastered this Mahler release and see what other magic he can do.




Offline John Kim

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2009, 04:32:10 PM »
Can someone compare this newly remastered set with the Japanses SACD set?

I know this is a tough question because there is no reason for anyone who already has the Japanese set to buy the new set :(

Thanks.

John,

Offline drfluid

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Re: new Bernstein/Mahler/Columbia (Sony) box set is out in the U.S.
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2009, 08:07:35 AM »
<my first posting here at Mahler board :)>
Dear members,
recently I purchased the carnegie hall edition of Bernstein box set (of course Marher symphonies) along with Chailly's and Bertini's -- there's a nice promotion going on at bn.com.

Anyway, I'm having trouble in ripping this CD's into the apple lossless format. I'm guessing the problem might have arouse from the problematic CD's containing too big a data. The last tracks of Disc 1 (M10 adagio) and Disc 9 (5th mov of M7) keeps popping error messages.

I tried my macbook pro -- doesn't even recognize the CD 1.
I tried my wife's macbook -- same. / I stopped here using Mac at this point.
Then I tried my work PC (dell) -- it does read the CD, but it stops at the aforementioned locations. All other CD's between Disc 2 and 8 had no problem.

Should I return the CD claiming they are defected or it's just a common 'large capacity CD' problem.
Anyway, I was a little surprised at the poor quality of the box set itself -- paper cases, etc.. But the music quality is fantastic indeed.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 08:09:06 AM by drfluid »

 

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