Nott/Bamberger Symphony Orch./Tudor M9th - my first impression

[John Kim]

I've listened to the entire recording once, the first movt. very carefully, but the rest of the symphony somewhat casually.

Based my first hearing (on the regular CD track) this, especially the first movt., may just be my dream Mahler Ninth.

It was also my first encounter with Jonathan Nott's recording of any music and I am tremendously impressed.

It is as if Nott has completely mastered all the previous Ninths, notably those by Levine, Chailly, Karajan, Dohnanyi, Bernstein, and combined the best elements from each to produce his own, very unique vision of this great symphony. The first thing I noticed is that Nott's conducting is incredibly sensitive and thought-provoking. But at the same time he does not spare fire and energy whenever called for; the central climaxes are carefully scaled and integrated and they come and go like huge waves or volcanoes. He gets all the tempi and temp relations perfectly right. He gets the balance and dynamics right. More to the point, he hits all the important marks without a single failure. One example: too often the timpani roll at the end of the first climax trails off too early without much impact. Not here. Nott prolongs it just enough to overlay slightly with the following page, the beginning of the development section, thereby adding more tension and heft. In fact, the timpani is very strong and prominent. It's not sharp a la Bernstein but has a somewhat thick quality that adds to the presence of the bass. Thanks God, the tam tam is very audible throughout, especially at the third climax, while the bell is not too prominent as it should not. The woodwinds are beautifully laid out and played with much sensibility. The recording sound is a little bit too close and dry but has a well balanced stage with a good depth and width. In other words, this is Mahler Ninth I. that is played and executed as perfectly as I can imagine. After hearing the movt. this way I cannot imagine it could be done any other ways, doubt that it could be done better.

I think the rest, especially the Finale, is as good as I. but I will report on that later after a few more listenings.

John,

[John Kim]

I am listening to the Finale now. As I expected it is beautifully played and has some incredibly sublime moments, e.g., the glissando in the strings in the final pages It's not as intense as the Karajan or grief ridden as the Bernstein, but as in I. it is carefully built up from A-Z with growing intensity. An excellent Finale. As for the Andante movt. it strokes me as the best of the lot.

John,

[alpsman]

As I posted already about 10 days ago my impressions from the new M9 under Nott are pretty negative-quite a difference from John Kim's.

I found the recording-as sound- totally un-atmospheric, but this is maybe misleading and is a fault of engineers.
The tempos are sensible and ordinary, nothing fault with this, but the passion, the struggle, the nostalgie, the mittel-europa scent is absent. The Lander second movement is without any dance lilt. Such an interpetation reminds me of period practice performances: Cold and analytical. I have also this opinion about Nott's M5 and Bruckner 3, so this is a conscious allergy with his music-making.
As for my list of M9 I vote for Bernstein, Karajan, Abbado, Giulini, Chailly, Sinopoli.....

Any way it is very positive to have very different opinions, this is the salt of life.

[sperlsco]

I swore off Nott's recordings after the disastrous ending to his M5 (the timpanist is off by a beat through the entire coda).  I still cannot imagine why the label did not fix it in the studio, use another performance, or something, anything other than release it as is.  I would listen to Glen Beck before I'd consider giving that performance another spin. 

However, John, you've peaked my interest.  How is the R-B movement?  Is it intense?  How does it compare to Lennie/DG, Abbado/Mfeest, or even Chailly?   

[John Kim]

Scott,

The inner movts are just fine, if not on the same exalted level of the opening movt. Of the two I find Landler better. It has lots of lilts (as opposed to what alpsman finds). Again, I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of vigor and forward momentum he puts into his music making, because otherwise his interpretation is generally more towards "sense and sensibility". I particularly liked the low contra bassoon near the end which claims its presence quite well thanks to Nott's balance. In most other recordings that instrument is buried in the passage. I will have to give yet another listen to the recording to give you a more accurate review of the two movt.

But I have no intention to change my opinion about I. It is, in my book, the BEST of all the recordings I know and own. Everything Nott does in this movt. is so right, so appropriate that it's hard to believe what I am hearing with my ears. 

I know, that is saying a lot .

Stay tuned.

John,

[John Kim]

I concur that the sound of the second disc (III.-IV.) has somewhat better quality than the first disc (I.-II.). For one thing, I recognize III. & IV. have a higher volume. They also sound slightly less dry and more juicy than I. & II. This is surely engineers' fault, not Nott's. It's possible they were recorded on different days with two different audio settings .

John,

[alpsman]

The second cd-in sacd mode also- has a big difference as sound from the first.

It is not only a matter of higher level, the level is the same, but the perspective, the ambience is very different. If you listen the last minutes in both  I and II mov. and spot on the woodwinds and the solo violin etc. and then go to the III mov. it is obvious that there is something like...well different hall and recording. This affects and the interpretation of the symphony because I find the sound too close and un-atmospheric in the first cd.
All that of course a mistake of engineers and the producer, but I wonder what the conductor does in such a situation. Not Nott listen the final product?

[John Kim]

Yeah, very strange, isn't it? Why would the conductor not listen to the recording before he endorses it for the final production?

Still, I very much like the way Nott lays out the music over the four movts. Very coherent, logical, sensitive, and thought provoking, not lacking fire and passion whenever called for.

Regards,

John,

[alpsman]

Maybe it's a fault of the production line and fix it later. This situation reminds me similar cases years ago in vinyl era. You played one side of the lp and the other had different level, focus etc.

[John Kim]

Maybe it's a fault of the production line and fix it later. This situation reminds me similar cases years ago in vinyl era. You played one side of the lp and the other had different level, focus etc.

That's right. But this issue with LP is understandable because of the limitations of the technology. However, CDs are completely different. You don't expect such limitations on the digital medium.

John,

[John Kim]

I wonder how the SACD layer will sound though. It should have a better dynamic range, more details and more open sound stage. That might create a different impression.

I will write to Tudor and ask what has happened to this production. Could it be just a defect in the discs?

John,

[alpsman]

In SACD layer it's the same problem. Of course the sound per se is much better, more natural, without edge etc. but it's the same ie. different sound image.

[John Kim]

On a close hearing, I found the recording level goes up from the second movt. on, NOT the third. But this could be Nott's doing; his first movt. doesn't sound as spectacular and loud as it could and I believe that's how he wants it to be. Well, we'll never know what really happened during the recording sessions .

John,

[John Kim]

Have listened to the whole CD again.

This time, it was difficult to notice any difference between the two discs. Maybe it's all in my mind .

Anyway, I have no reason to change my verdict on Nott's M9th. If the orchestra is not BPO, VPO, or RCO, Nott's way with this symphony is pretty much all I can wish for. Make no mistake. His reading is NOT want of fire and passion; they are all there indeed whenever called for.

I encourage you to go after this magnificent new Mahler Ninth by all means.

John,

[John Kim]

I swore off Nott's recordings after the disastrous ending to his M5 (the timpanist is off by a beat through the entire coda).  I still cannot imagine why the label did not fix it in the studio, use another performance, or something, anything other than release it as is. 

Scott,

Uhm...I couldn't pick the timpani getting off by a beat in the coda.

Can you be more specific, e.g., in terms of the timing?

I found Nott's M5th utterly natural and it has a great architecture. It has great sound too (better than the Ninth, perhaps). Only the Finale is slightly disappointing in that it is somewhat underwhelming.

Thanks.

John,