Reviews of M9, Alan Gilbert, Royal Stockholm PO, BIS on SACD (MERGED)

[John Kim]

Quite right. To me, II-IV have never felt overshadowed by I. No way. No matter how the opening movt. is played, they are just as powerful, important, and great.

John,

[Nathaniel]

What exactly did you like in the Oue M9? I thought it was cold and uneventful. I actually liked his LvdE for about 5 minutes a long-long time ago when I didn't know anything about Mahler and was kind of clueless about the piece. I don't mean to belittle your preferences. It's hard to agree on anything Mahler related. The thing about Mahler, I guess, is that everyone thinks HIS Mahler is the RIGHT Mahler and good men are willing to duel about their Mahler conviction at 6 am in the woods.

yes, but the first movement is so great that it can easily overshadow the rest of it. Also, there are plenty of recordings where the performers simply could not keep up the same level of intensity from start to finish. In a way, I think the Ninth is a very draining work.

Anyway, to take this in yet another obtuse direction, I think the Eji Oue M9 (Exton or Canyon) has more character and interest to it than the Nott. That's just me.

[waderice]

It's hard to agree on anything Mahler related. The thing about Mahler, I guess, is that everyone thinks HIS Mahler is the RIGHT Mahler and good men are willing to duel about their Mahler conviction at 6 am in the woods.

Which is why I stand by the Mahler performances that have stood the test of time, executed by conductors whose interpretations were recognized as authoritative.  There are extremely few Mahler performances nowadays that stand out from all the rest.  I'd rather let everyone else argue how each note or dynamic at a particular point in the score should be played by this or that conductor, and eventually there will be a winner, if any at all.

Wade

[barry guerrero]

Oue 9: It's a lot like the Giulini, which is considered to be "a classic" by some. It has very powerful climaxes in the outer movements. And while the inner two movements are greatly under-tempo, they have a sort of strained, Berg-ian (as in Alban Berg), expressionistic quality that's very similar to how the inner movements sound on the Giulini. By the way, I don't consider Mahler 9 to be a "warm" piece of music. I'm not sure exactly what constitutes "hot" or "warm" or "cool" or "cold", etc.; but Mahler 9 doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies to begin with. Anyway, I actually think the Oue one is better played than the Giulini. It's certainly better recorded.

[Nathaniel]

I agree with you about Giulini. But I don't hear the parallels with Oue. Maybe in tempos? (I haven't checked) but not in atmosphere. And don't get hung up on "cold". I don't mean that M9 is warm in the fuzzy sense, but it is a large scale, romantic, expressive, full-bodied, expansive symphony (I don't hear Alban Berg in the 9th -- more in the 6th or 7th). I do hear all that large scale monumental volcano in the Giulini, but the Oue is more minimalistic and "clean". This is all from memory though, so more importantly, you've intrigued me to re-listen to both. I'll be happy to revisit it at a later stage.

[Leo K]

Oue 9: It's a lot like the Giulini, which is considered to be "a classic" by some. It has very powerful climaxes in the outer movements. And while the inner two movements are greatly under-tempo, they have a sort of strained, Berg-ian (as in Alban Berg), expressionistic quality that's very similar to how the inner movements sound on the Giulini. By the way, I don't consider Mahler 9 to be a "warm" piece of music. I'm not sure exactly what constitutes "hot" or "warm" or "cool" or "cold", etc.; but Mahler 9 doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies to begin with. Anyway, I actually think the Oue one is better played than the Giulini. It's certainly better recorded.

I agree.

Oue is not warm and fuzzy but he certainly is dramatic...the climaxes in the outer movements are among the loudest and agressive I've heard.  I didn't hear a minimal quality but we all have different ideas on what that could mean...Oue's M9 is amazing to me anyway!


--Todd

[Nathaniel]

Thanks for the tip on Oue. I've just listened to it again. The 1st movement is great and, like you say, has powerful contrasts and has a "Bergian" type, dark, intellectual quality. And yes, he continues with this in the inner movements, as he must, but they are long and dry and the concept doesn't hold (in the inner movements) for me. I don't hear the same style in the adagio though, it's quiet and resigned and zen-like, plus it's minimalistic and doesn't follow the intellectual, driven powerhouse of the first three. So after the first movement, the rest is pretty much a let down (for me). Anyway thanks. I"ll check out the Giulini again.