Author Topic: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10  (Read 17311 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« on: May 04, 2007, 07:13:46 AM »
Sorry to disagree with you boys, but I feel that the new Barenboim M9 is easily the best single disc Mahler 9th out there. As Hurwitz pointed out, the two inner movements are executed fabulously. But I feel that the two outer movements are done really well also. Yes, the main climax of the first movement could be more powerful. But I like how Barenboim's first movement doesn't sound like a piece written by a composer who had already died. "How so?", you ask. Well, listen to how Barenboim eschews excess sentimentality during the exposition of the main, lullaby-like melody. He keeps the pace moving; allowing the "sappy", lullaby quality of that melody to speak for itself. But near the end of the movement - after the heartaches, and getting ourselves dragged through the mud - Barenboim permits himself to just wallow in that melody. This is an interpretive touch that's as obvious as it is brilliant; leaving one wondering why no-one else had stumbled upon the same solution before. Think I'm wrong? Listen to it again; carefully. Listen to how - after the first big climax, located about a minute into the movement - Barenboim takes the main melody in an almost swift manner. Then check out the last two minutes of the movement. It's really almost miraculous. Combined with the slightly slower than usual Rondo-Burlesque (but very, very rhythmic), what I'm reminded of here is Solti's first M9 with the LSO. Barenboim has that same sort of Straussian sweep to his first movement. Granted, Solti has a stronger main (anti)climax to the first movement. But Barenboim has a far, FAR better fourth movement than Solti. Listen to how Barenboim pours on the coals during all of those loud and sweeping, string-dominated passages. Yet, after the main climax of the fourth movement (done quite well, I feel), he slows down right along with Bernstein, Abbado, Karajan - you name 'em. His last two minutes are recorded fabulously - sans audience, thank goodness. To put all this another way, our protagonist doesn't die until the last two minutes of the entire symphony.

Bernstein always spoke about how the 9th was written by a composer who wanted to keep on living, yet needed to say farewell. To that end, I feel that Barenboim trumps him.

I've heard the Abbado M9 from the 1995 Mahlerfest, and I honestly feel that you can keep it. To me, it's yet another one where the 9th just sounds like a giant concerto for a huge string section - a piece written expressly for big strings, loud horns, and loud timpani. I think there's a lot more to this seminal work than just that.  I prefer the aesthetics of this Barenboim one, where the emphasis is placed far more on woodwind colorings. If nothing else, it's a refreshing change.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 07:42:57 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline Leo K

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 02:12:03 PM »
Thanks for this well written review Barry!  I agree with your 10/10 rating. 

This recording and Barenboim's live M9th in Berlin (in April) have both been revelatory and have offered a view of the 9th I haven't heard before, like the woodwind balances.  I agree the woodwind colorings are essential to this work.  I also like how the strings are lean and rather cutting.  Overall there is a kind of "chamber music" atmosphere to the texture.  Although I usually turn towards the slower tempos of Horenstein, Bernstein, Karajan and etc, I've found Baremboim's account to be a real serious contender, if not more satisfying overall in terms of pace, instrumental detail and overall architecture of the four movements.  The 3rd movement in particular is usually a "problem" movement for me...it's a spot where my attention usually lags as I look forward to get to the last movement, but Barenboim keeps my attention all the way through and opens my ears to the ultimate importance of this movement in the grand scheme of this work's discourse. 

But your review brings up other points I haven't considered, so I can't wait to give this disk another spin! 

 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 05:36:51 PM by Leo K »

Offline John Kim

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 04:19:14 PM »
Barry,

OK, I got your points. But aren't you bothered by the sound? Giving it 10 is too much...I mean it doesn't sound as good as Dohnanyi, Ozawa, Chailly, or even the live Karajan, to name a few. I think the sound deserves 8 at best (just compare it to Barenboim's M7th CD).

John,

Offline sperlsco

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2007, 05:22:25 PM »
Barry:

I know that to some extent your preference is for a different type of M9 than mine.  OTOH, we share some favorites (Ozawa/SKO to name one).  While my M9 preference runs toward longer outer movements (i.e. 26+ in both I and IV), I also quite like this new Barenboim one.  It may not be one of the main ones to which I return in the future, but the fact that it is both different and convincingly so makes it worthwhile.  In other words, this may not be the way that I prefer to hear the symphony, but DB has convinced me that it is a thoughtful way to perform it.  

BTW: I haven't listened to the Jansons/Oslo M9 in a while but my memory tells me that the timings are similar to the Barenboim one.    
Scott

Vatz Relham

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2007, 09:01:35 PM »
I'm with you on this one Barry, for single disc.
There were only two places in it that I didn't like as I previously mentioned,
One is the weak tam-tam at the big climax of the 1st mvmt (all agreed), and the other is right after the climax in the 4th mvmt,
it seems too fast until the cymbal crash, then it slows down beautifully as you mentioned.
I like the sound also because of the high level recording, you don't have to turn it up too high to get a real presence.

Vatz

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2007, 03:59:52 AM »
"Jansons/Oslo M9"

I didn't know that such a thing existed. Was this put out on Simax?

John,

I very much like the sound on the DB M9. It may not be quite as good, sound wise, as his recent 7th, but it's still good to my ears. I like the fact that DB and the Warner engineers didn't attempt to dissect all the individual string lines during those sections where the strings are divided up into many separate, contrapuntal parts. Recordings that try to do that, such as all the DG ones, just sound weird and dessicated. This strikes me as being far more natural, with perhaps some gain-riding on the w.w. mikes. At least it's not ugly sounding.

Offline John Kim

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2007, 02:09:55 PM »
Barry,

But what about the limited dynamic range? Did you notice that every climax in I. is tempered down in its dynamic range as well as clarity? The Abbado/BPO/DG has the same problem, albeit it's worse than the DB M9th. It sounds as if it came from 50's or 60's when the engineers had to rely on analogue recording technique, but we are living in a digital world nowadays.

John,

Offline sperlsco

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2007, 02:43:13 PM »
"Jansons/Oslo M9"

I didn't know that such a thing existed. Was this put out on Simax?


Yes, paired with an M1.  I quite liked both of them when I first purchased the CD and they both have outstanding sound.  Again, the outer movements of the M9 were a little faster than my preference, but were still well done.  Here are the timings:  25:57, 16:28, 14:04, 24:44. 

I should probably compare the Oslo M1 with his new RCOA M1.  The timings are very similar, so it would be interesting to see how the Oslo PO ciompares to the RCOA. 
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 02:48:25 PM by sperlsco »
Scott

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2007, 03:07:45 PM »
Yes, John, I suppose you're correct about the first movement climax being compressed. But I already know what a loud first movement climax sounds like, and it usually doesn't come from this type of performance. Still, you're right: it could be better.

Scott,

Thanks for the info on the Jansons/Simax M1/9. I vaguely remember that being announced, but I've never seen it in the U.S.

Offline John Kim

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2007, 05:27:00 PM »
As for the Jansons/Oslo/Simax M9th, the 1st movt. is very fine with some of the volatile elements well expressed in fast and sudden tempo. The playing is nearly flawless too. But the middle movements II & III sound just too plain to be effective. Actually, this may be the dullest interpretation given to the movts. - no punch, no excitement, just going through the motion. However, the finale is again loaded with beautiful playing in the strings. The sound is terrific, if somewhat distant.

John,

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2007, 02:27:19 AM »
Another "interpretive" touch that I really, REALLY like on the Barenboim M9 is near the end of the second movement. I like that he slows down for the dialog between the contra-bassoon and first horn. It keeps it from sounding like the contrabassoon player is being rushed to move things along. It's also just a lot more creepy sounding at the slower tempo. But just before the the two regular bassoons do their duo, the solo horn goes up to a high note, and then does a descrescendo as he or she descends step-wise. Well, on the DB recording, I like how the solo horn does a huge crescendo on that high note BEFORE making the descrescendo. These touches make that entire passage sound more Shostakovich-like (and of course, Mahler came first). It may seem like a minor thing, but it makes a big difference to me.

Barry

Offline Leo K

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2007, 07:10:11 PM »
Another "interpretive" touch that I really, REALLY like on the Barenboim M9 is near the end of the second movement. I like that he slows down for the dialog between the contra-bassoon and first horn. It keeps it from sounding like the contrabassoon player is being rushed to move things along. It's also just a lot more creepy sounding at the slower tempo. But just before the the two regular bassoons do their duo, the solo horn goes up to a high note, and then does a descrescendo as he or she descends step-wise. Well, on the DB recording, I like how the solo horn does a huge crescendo on that high note BEFORE making the descrescendo. These touches make that entire passage sound more Shostakovich-like (and of course, Mahler came first). It may seem like a minor thing, but it makes a big difference to me.

Barry

Agreed...this section is amazingly executed.  And there are so many small details that make this recording so engaging, I've already mentioned the oboes...but the flutes are outstanding too...with an almost icey cold chill...wow. 

The whole performance is a "horizontal" rather "vertical" performance, if that makes sense.  This 9th is conducted like a Schoenberg work, where the focus in on the "line" (from start to finish) rather than whats happening above or below the line harmonically.  This is my impression anyways.  I guess I'm trying to say it's a lean performance, with not much fat.  Thats why the so called "compressed" climaxes don't really bother me at all.  In my car stereo the climaxes seem to explode...but the explosions cut like a laser.

This 9th isn't conducted like it's a 9th Symphony...it's more like a "5th Symphony" kind of performance...young and brash sounding...aggressive.  I like how this 9th isn't a sacred, or holy work for Barenboim...it's just a symphony. 

I've been listening to this disk all weekend...it is an awesome 9th.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 07:19:16 PM by Leo K »

Wunderhorn

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2007, 05:03:22 AM »
I don't know, maybe it is too late to put in a comment on this old news, but I love how in the second movement it speeds up all of a sudden to the mania of the first climax; It seems slow until that new idea erupts like a new edifice without the previous one formulated entirely. I haven't listened to the whole performances in the greatest of detail, but there are things which make me say perhaps Barenboim was too dynamic in speed when it came to this symphony, but then again he was also that way with M7, but the crystal clarity of the sound made him a success! It is funny how much muddled and mono sound can hamper a recording, but then again I've only heard this recording on an ipod, so I couldn't exactly, even if analysed, give an accurate criticism.

Offline John Kim

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2007, 05:38:30 AM »
Well, I must say DB's live radio clip was more interesting, exciting, better played and recorded than the commercial release. The 1st movt. was less than 25 min. long, i.e., it was extremely fast while II-IV were more or less the same. The logic here seems, "when you want to go all the way up, do it fast and wild!" and it worked out nicely.

John,

Offline Leo K

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Re: B.G. gives Barenboim M9 a hearty 10/10
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2007, 05:44:41 AM »
Yes, the live performance is more exciting and even more aggresive!  And it has pretty good sound quality too.

--Leo

 

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