M8 in Rotterdam Conducted by Nézet-Séguin

[waderice]

I don't know how many of you here are members of the Facebook Mahler group, but the people in Europe are currently going "Ga-Ga" in their posts there over the just-performed M8 conducted by Nézet-Séguin in Rotterdam.  I told them that we had the same wonderful experience with Nézet-Séguin's M8 here in Philadelphia two years ago.

Glad we had a two-year head start.

Wade

[Prospero]

I heard Nezet-Seguin conduct the M8 in Montreal on June 20, 2010 with his Montreal Metroplitan orchestra combined with the Ottawa symphony and vast choral resources. Younger, but overwhelming.

[barryguerrero]

Here's just the ending to Part II on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYmX0Z7768I

.   .    .  or you can hear/see the whole thing by subcribing to Medici.tv "Premium"

https://www.medici.tv/en/concerts/yannick-nezet-seguin-conducts-mahler-symphony-8/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20180327_yannick%20nezet%20seguin

[Freddy van Maurik]

I was lucky enough to be at the rehearsals last Thursday, and at the concert on Friday-night. On Thursday at 2 pm, they played the entire piece, then at 4 pm Yannick (this is quicker than typing his last name) took an hour to go into some details. Then (after a nice meal with my friends of the Dutch Mahler Society) at 7pm they played the entire piece AGAIN! And of course, on Friday-night at the concert there were no singers that were holding back in any way (this was the case at some points during the rehearsals, especially for tenor Michael Schade - which is perfectly okay, of course).

To be able to hear M8 three times (!) within 32 hours was mind-blowing, especially because this was a near perfect performance. The choirs were very good, especially the children, the soloists were amazing (I was blown away by Angela Meade, Erin Wall (of whom I had not heard before) and - of course - Michelle DeYoung). The Rotterdam "Doelen"-hall is very suited for this music, as is its organ. All instruments were very well audible, including harps, harmonium, celesta, piano and mandolin. Yannick, being a fantastic operatic conductor, approached the piece as you would do with an opera, and this made grandeur and finesse go perfectly hand-in-hand.
Truly two days to cherish!

Cheers,
Freddy

[Freddy van Maurik]

Erin Wall (of whom I had not heard before)

I now know, of course, that she also sings on the recordings of M8 by Boulez and Tilson-Thomas...

[Settembrini]

especially because this was a near perfect performance

I was unlucky enough to attend the concert last Friday as well. Of course, Nézet-Séguin's (look, I typed his entire name!) superficial approach received rave reviews from the newspapers, especially the Rotterdam-based (even though they moved to Amsterdam) NRC Handelsblad (what a surprise!), but everything about the performance was pretty forgettable. The male soloists were very underwhelming (especially Schade), the Rotterdam Phil. is a second tier orchestra (and the acoustics in the Doelen are god awful), and Nézet-Séguin conducts everything in the same, flashy way (congratulations, New York). Of course, these kind of farewell (or better: good ridance) concerts are always billed as something momentuous, but the only momentuous thing about it was the roaring applause this run-of-the-mill preformance received from a tone deaf audience.

[Prospero]

Your statement: "Nézet-Séguin conducts everything in the same, flashy way" is absurdly false.

You clearly did not listen to the Metropolitan Opera broadcast of Parsifal. The most moving, meditative, and compassionate performance of that enigmatic masterpiece I have heard in over fifty years of experience. From the first notes of the prelude you could hear the suffering and questing of humanity. The most inward and meaningful performance of Parsifal that I have heard.

You have to go back to the Toscanini famously expansive BBC Orchestra recording from 1935 to hear such a deep and reflective performance of the prelude. And in this instance the entire five hour opera was conducted with the greatest sensitivity and and feeling.

The Parsifal completely negates your statement.

[Settembrini]

If Nézet-Séguin's superficial Parsifal at the MET (which I've heard) is "the most moving, meditative, and compassionate performance of that enigmatic masterpiece [you] have heard in over fifty years of experience" I feel sorry for you. Maybe you haven't heard James Levine (yes, the guy with the slow tempi) conduct Parsifal in your fifty years of experience, or Haitink, Barenboim, Thielemann, Kubelik, or Haenchen, or even Gatti.

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed Nézet-Séguin's Parsifal, but I didn't. Just as I didn't enjoy his Mahler 8th, or his abismal Schumann, Mendelssohn and Bruckner symphonies, or his Mozart Da Ponte opera's, or anything else I had the bad fortune of hearing him conduct. In short: you liked his Parsifal, I didn't. We disagree.

[Prospero]

I have heard Parsifal with Levine live twice and Gatti live at the Met. Sinnopoli, Stein, and Fischer live at Bayreuth. You don't mention Knappertsbusch or Fritz Busch. I have heard Haitink live in Meistersinger but not Parsifal live. I know the Kubleik on CD (it was a radio production, the Meistersinger is even finer). I have heard Barenboim in Tristan and Meistersinger live at Bayreuth. A friend does speak highly of his Parsifal in Berlin, but I have not heard that. I have heard the Ring with Boulez live at Bayreuth in 1976, Carlos Kleiber in Tristan live at Bayreuth. The Ring also with Davis, Levine, and Thielemann, all live.

And that does not go into a great range of Wagner with Furtwangler, Walter, Krauss, Keilberth, Kempe, Solti, Bodanzsky, etc., etc.

I think I have a fairly broad experience of Wagner conducting live and on record.

If you didn't like Nézet-Seguin in anything including Parsifal that is your view. I heard something profound and spiritual. However you say: "Nézet-Séguin conducts everything in the same, flashy way."  That is simply not true as demonstrated by the Parsifal.

[Settembrini]

Thanks for the extensive overview of all the Wagner performances you've attended. I'm deeply impressed.

You heard something "profound and spiritual" in Nézet-Séguin's Parsifal. I didn't. I heard a conductor completely at a loss (as usual in late Romantic, Central-European music, but he is great in Ravel's Bolero!), with no understanding whatsoever of the work's overall structure, compensating with a glib superficiality that was supossed to pass for spirituality. The fact that my views differ from yours doesn't make them "simply not true" as you say, it's called having a different opinion. To me, the fact that Nézet-Séguin conducts everything in the same flashy way, was proven exactly by both his vaporous Mahler 8 and his failed attempt at Parsifal.

[barryguerrero]

Guys, he's a conductor. He waves a stick. End of story. I've played under a gazillion conductors. They're a necessary evil and little else. Mahler - the  most 'interventionist' conductor of all time - said as much himself (late in his life). Works on the scale of "Parsifal" and Mahler 8 have a wide range of important people contributing to their outcome, as well as a myriad of logistical issues which are sometimes - if not often times - out of the conductor's hands.

[Freddy van Maurik]

Well, we already noted that Settembrini and I clearly look (or listen, really) for different things in a performance (regarding Gatti's M2), or at least experience them differently. Apparently, we're not likely to agree on many things (concerning musical performances that is).

I do agree that Michael Schade was underwhelming, as was Markus Werba, to my ears. But the female singers were very good indeed, I think, although Fujimura has a 'smaller' voice than DeYoung, which made her 'drown' a bit.

But Settembrini, I wonder why you keep attending these concerts by conductors that just don't deliver, to your ears. Of course, I fully respect the fact that (our) opinions differ, but why would you attend this M8, knowing that you don't like Nézet-Séguin's work and find De Doelen's acoustics "god awful"?

[Settembrini]

Because it's my job. Usually I focus on opera, but once in a while I have to sit through these kind of torturous affairs.

[Freddy van Maurik]

Ah, yes of course. I now recall that you once mentioned that you are a music critic for "a dutch music site and magazine"". Care to tell us which site and magazine? Just being curious (also to see your review of this concert).

[Prospero]

Different perspectives and responses.

I imagine one should almost always say: "in my opinion." One problem, which I am often susceptible to also, is the mistake of thinking that one's view or interpretation equals unchangeable truth.

I don't understand Settembrini's (?Zauberberg) "in the same flashy way." But that is how he sees/hears it. Hopefully he finds worthwhile alternatives.