Netopil/Essen M3 (Oehms) - now out on Spotify

[John Kim]

My reference M3rds are

Bernstein/NYPO/Sony
Kubelik/BRSO/Audite
Inbal/FRSO/Denon

I think these three versions pretty much nailed the piece down.

John

[erikwilson7]

I’m having the same odd revelation as you, Barry. I listened to the whole thing through and enjoyed it more. It’s growing on me a bit.
This happened to me with the Roth / Cologne M3 from a few years ago; that one grew on me too.

[barryguerrero]

Yeah, the Tonkunstler uses the same indigenous Viennese horns, oboes, and natural drum skins as the Vienna Phil. use. The Sado M3 is a lot like the Abbado/V.P.O. one in that sense, except that it's far better recorded than the Abbado. In fact, I think those Tonkunstler recordings have captured the real acoustics of the Musikverein pretty much better than anyone else has. It's a great venue 'live', but doesn't particularly record well.

[erikwilson7]

Okay, after listening to this new Netopil / Essen M3 a few more times over the past days I've grown to like it even more. I don't think it stacks up against any of the greats, but on its own I find it a solid and well-integrated M3. The Esseners don't compare to, say, Vienna or the Concertgebouw, but they do a fine job and there isn't really anything I would consider genuinely "sloppy playing" in this recording. And the sonics are quite good; I'd say better than Oehms other M3 with Stenz. I also think that Netopil has a good sense of what the score demands, and Mahler's music as a whole. And I certainly can't argue with any of his tempi.

When I compare snippets to other great recordings––like a Bernstein one––it sounds lackluster (but what doesn't?). However, and just like a Boulez Mahler recording, if you listen to it in full it sounds much more satisfying within the context of itself. Those big moments––like the ending brass chorale––that sounded weak before when comparing it directly to other recordings sound much better when you simply take the recording as a whole and let its narrative play out.

[barryguerrero]

That was last impression I had as well. I wanted to let it rest on the floor for a few days, before taking it in again. Unfortunately, Christina is seldom 'out of the house now' (she fractured her shoulder in rural WA), so I'm not getting opportunities to crank it up, and listen straight through from beginning to end.

I really LOVE 'the southern storm' fantasy passage played really fast and tight, like it is here (it's rhythmically really tight!). I just wish the accompanying utility percussion had cut through the dense textures a bit more than they do.

[barryguerrero]

John, I don't have 'reference' recordings, I don't think - perhaps just favorites. With M3 - as with most of the Mahler symphonies, I would have a very difficult time narrowing my list down to just a couple. Sooooo, here are some of my favorites by whatever.

U.S. - Alan Gilbert/N.Y. Phil. (download or streaming only); Jaap van Zweden/Dallas S.O.; M. Honeck/Pittsburg; Salonen/L.A. Phil.

Europe - Haitink/BRSO; Boulez/V.P.O. (the 'pirate' from Carnegie Hall is even better than the DG studio issue); Inbal/Frankfurt R.S.O.; Adam Fischer/Dusseldorf; Dudamel/Berlin Phil.; Kobayashi/Czech Phil. (sadly, Kobayashi's humming and grunting is very audible); Ashkenazy/D.S.O. Berlin; Stenz/Gurzenich; Bychkov/WDR Orch. Koln   .    .   .   .   probably one or two others I'm not thinking of.

England - Horenstein (but I like the sound of the Nonesuch LP's over the pale sounding Unicorn CD issues); Rattle/Birmingham

Youtube only - Tennstedt/Minnesota S.O. (absolutely outrageous!)

Pirates - D. Gatti/Concertgebouw (absolutely fantastic!); Salonen/Dresden Staatskapelle; D. Harding/Swedish R.S.O.; Welser-Most/Cleveland

DVD - Abbado/Lucerne Festival Orch.; Paavo Jarvi/Frankfurt R.S.O.

[ChrisH]

Interesting lists. It seems that I should really revisit Inbal with Frankfurt in the 3rd. Many of the favorites offered above, would also make my list.

To throw a couple of my favorites not listed I'd add: Zinman with Tonhalle, Chailly/RCO (wish we'd gotten a blu-ray with Leipzig), Lopez-Cobos/Cincinnati, I. Fischer/Budapest, and Gielen/SWR.

Honorable mention for best brass chorale in mvt IV would go to Jarvi, and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. This is a VERY uneven recording, but the sound of the brass in the chorale is unmatched.

[erikwilson7]

I too wish we got a Chailly / Leipzig video. If completed that would take the cake for the best video cycle. Everything else is just amazing.

While we are bouncing lists around, here are ten of my personal favorite M3s at the moment, in no order:

Boulez / VPO
Haitink / RCO ‘66
Roth / Cologne
Dudamel / Berlin
Chailly / RCO
I. Fischer / Budapest
Á. Fischer / Düsseldorf
Bernstein / NYPO
Kubelík / BRSO (DG)
López-Cobos / Cincinnati

It seems there are a few we can all agree on!

[barryguerrero]

It's just positively absurd that Chailly and the Leipzig people couldn't have worked out something, in order to get that video Mahler cycle completed. It's very frustrating. Another frustration, is that DG - or somebody else, possibly - haven't bought the rights to Abbado's Lucerne Festival Orch. performances of Mahler, and issued them in a box set of CD's, or just downloads. Imagine if they had done that, and added in Chailly's Lucerne Festival M8!

[erikwilson7]

This is my personal preference, but I think Abbado's Lucerne recordings are his best Mahler recordings overall. Maybe his Chicago 7th is better though.

You're right, it would be wonderful if DG acquired those videos and released the audio like they did with the M2 (and included that solid Chailly / Lucerne M8 as well). I'd buy that CD box set in a heartbeat––and I already own the video cycle!

[John Kim]

As for Boulez/VPO M3rd, I prefer his 2001 live concert in New York to the DG recording.

John

[barryguerrero]

Yes John, I agree with that. I think Boulez was a bit better live than many people thought.

[barryguerrero]

Just an update, guys. My local used CD store, Streetlight Records, is going to order a copy of the Netopil M3 for me from Naxos. They will charge me the full retail price. However, I can bring in things to trade towards it.

As much as I love the 'musicality' demonstrated upon my Jean Martinon/Chicago Symphony box on RCA, I just don't play items from that box often. I already have separate issues of the Nielsen #4, and the excellent Ravel disc Martinon made in Chicago (in fact, I have two of those). Streetlight should get a good price for that online from another customer. There are other things I have to trade as well. The lord knows I don't need yet another Mahler 3 recording, but I really like the Netopil one, and I LOVE the cover on it. I also want to support that project from Oehms just a little bit.

[John Kim]

Barry

I have yet to give the Netopil M3rd a listen, but as I wrote, he delivered a really outstanding concert including Smetana Overture & Dvorak 6th in Seoul, Korea a couple weeks ago. After the great success there are talks going on already about inviting him to become a music director of the Seoul orchestra.

John

[barryguerrero]

Interesting. I'm not sure his Janacek CD's are as good as advertised (Supraphon). So far, his best recordings have been his Martinu ones. He seems to excel with Martinu.