Re-exploring Mahler

[Leo K]

Chailly M10 arrived in this afternoon's post, and I listened to it immediately.  I found it interesting and very moving in parts, especially knowing about Gustav discovering Alma's affair with Gropius whilst writing this piece, and his ability to transcend the feelings of betrayal.

It does seem that more percussion in places would make it more Mahlerian, so to speak, but all in all, a worthwhile experience.

Thanks to Don and others for the recommendation!

Glad you enjoyed the performance!  The Chailly M10 is very moving, and got me interested in this work in a profound manner.  I believe the Carpenter edition fills out the percussion more liberally than Cooke, as do Samale/Mazzuca in their edition (on the Sieghart/Arnhem/Exton SACD release)...these are great editions.

--Todd

[Leo K]

I don't want to forget Mazzetti's fantastic 1st version of his performance edition...from Leonard Slatkin:




This is my top M10 at this time...this nearly broke me down when I heard it again recently.  I also love the Carpenter (Litton/DSO) and the Seighart disk I mentioned above.

For another beautiful sounding Cooke, the vintage Ormandy/Philly is wonderful (he uses Cooke's official first version of his edition), .

God I love the M10.

--Todd

[john haueisen]

Ditto, Todd!
--John H

[john haueisen]

Just as a further explanation to explain why Todd and I shout out our appreciation for M10,  do you remember how I described my October visit to Cincinnati to hear Gilbert Kaplan conduct M2?  I told how his pre-concert lecture on Mahler was the first lecture that had ever provoked me to tears.  Kaplan did a Powerpoint slideshow, accompanied by music from Mahler symphonies to support his points.

When he was describing Mahler's heart-breaking grief at the possibility of losing Alma, he followed with a comment about it being an auditory expression of Munch's painting, "The Scream."   Next he played a heart-wrenching excerpt from M10.  As I seized my handkerchief to pat my eyes dry, I was delighted to see dozens of others in the lecture audience in a similar state of tearful emotion.  My wife noticed a crack in Kaplan's voice as the emotion of sharing Mahler's grief overcame him a bit too.

Often since then, I've wished Kaplan would record his lecture, but I'm sure it has more dramatic impact when you hear it live.  Please, if you ever have a chance to attend a Kaplan concert and lecture, do not miss it.  I'd go back every night to share the love and appreciation of these great masters--Mahler and Kaplan.

--John H

[merlin]

Slatkin (Mazzetti) M10 has gotten some very mixed reviews, especially about the deficiency of his conducting.  It sounds as though the version would be quite interesting in that there is more brass and percussion, and a more persuasive finale.

But does Slatkin mess this up enough that it would be annoying?

Also, the CD seems to be OOP.

[Leo K]

Slatkin (Mazzetti) M10 has gotten some very mixed reviews, especially about the deficiency of his conducting.  It sounds as though the version would be quite interesting in that there is more brass and percussion, and a more persuasive finale.

But does Slatkin mess this up enough that it would be annoying?

Also, the CD seems to be OOP.

Trust me, this performance is highly underrated...I find Slatkin to be quite inspired here.  Nothing drags, the tempos for the scherzos define these unfinished movements in a convincing pattern.  The dynamics are very wide, great contrasts throughout.  In terms of drama and beauty of playing, the Finale here is the most moving in all my versions of the M10 (and I have just about all of them).  Perhaps Mazzetti's edition helped inspire Slatkiin, also Slatkin has been very interested in the M10, even contemplating his own edition at one point.  Barry agrees this is a very good M10.  Of course, the M10 is open to many different views, and because of this, there is always something to be gained by hearing another version (whether a different edition or conducter), some say Rattle owns this work, yet Rattle's is no definitive view by any means, he has the excellant BPO, but he sticks to the Cooke.  And I would rather hear Wigglesworth when it comes to the Cooke.

Another M10 worth checking out, is the fantastic Carpenter edition as led by Litton and the Dallas Symphony...which I believe is still in print.  I bought the Slatkin from an Amazon seller for about 9 bucks, so I would check that source for the Slatkin.  Any of these will be an interesting listen...many on the board highly recommend the Litton/Dallas disk.

(Merlin, I sent ya a PM)

--Todd

[Don]

Ah another M 10 convert!

The Litton Carpenter is the most effective of the non Cooke editions. I have never warmed to either of Mazzetti's versions, find the Samale/Mazzuca version a bit over done (I hate that they mess with the Adagio), consider the Wheeler a mere curiosity and don't think Barshai's improves on the earlier versions. Cooke III seems to have become the most prevalent version.

Sanderling and the Berlin SO did a wonderful Cooke II with some effective touches in the percussion. It is still available and is one of my favorite overall performances.

Even in the barest Wheeler version, one can still hear the drama, pathos, power and the voice of the master in this masterpiece of symphonic music.

[Leo K]

Ah another M 10 convert!

The Litton Carpenter is the most effective of the non Cooke editions. I have never warmed to either of Mazzetti's versions, find the Samale/Mazzuca version a bit over done (I hate that they mess with the Adagio), consider the Wheeler a mere curiosity and don't think Barshai's improves on the earlier versions. Cooke III seems to have become the most prevalent version.

Sanderling and the Berlin SO did a wonderful Cooke II with some effective touches in the percussion. It is still available and is one of my favorite overall performances.

Even in the barest Wheeler version, one can still hear the drama, pathos, power and the voice of the master in this masterpiece of symphonic music.

The Sanderling is one I have not heard yet actually...thanks for the reminder.

As for the Wheeler, I much prefer Olson's 1st recording from Colorado!

--Todd

[Don]

The Sanderling is worth checking out. And the MahlerFest recording is quite good and still available from them, I believe.

Olsen teaches here in KC, but does little Mahler with the UMKC orchestra... damn it.

[john haueisen]

But does Slatkin mess this up enough that it would be annoying?

Merlin, don't be scared off the Slatkin just because of varying opinions.
For me, the Slatkin is an excellent and well-conducted and performed version.
--John H

[mike bosworth]

Sanderling and the Berlin SO did a wonderful Cooke II with some effective touches in the percussion. It is still available and is one of my favorite overall performances.

Of the Cooke versions that I own, the Sanderling is my favorite by far. 

I picked up the Olsen/Mahlerfest perfornance of Wheeler's version in Boulder early this year, but need to listen to it a few more times to form an 'educated' opinion of its merits vis-a-vis Cooke.

Mike Bosworth

[stillivor]

Just wanted to give a simple reason in support of M10 as valid.

Which is that nobody else could possibly have somposed what Mahler did in it.

  Ivor

[john haueisen]

Re:M10
Todd once asked us to list works that we found haunting.
I always think of the haunting, sometimes spooky sounds of M10's third movement, Purgatorio.
Has anyone else found it that way?
--John H

[barry guerrero]

"I always think of the haunting, sometimes spooky sounds of M10's third movement, Purgatorio.
Has anyone else found it that way?"

Absolutely. Apparently, the title comes from some poem or novella, having to do infidelity. The author of the poem has been identified, but I forget who it was. It's interesting that in each of Mahler's five-movement symphonies - M5, M7, and M10 - the middle movement gets progressively shorter. It's an astonishingly effective movement that lasts less than 5 minutes!

[stillivor]

I have a fondness for old recordings, Merlin, so here are a few.

    1. Mitropoulos. Full of ideas. Plentiful rubato.
 
    2. Stokowski,'63. Fairly amazing. So full of personality.

    3. Kondrashin.  Refreshing.

    4. Sejna.      A charmer.

    5. Walter.     First version I had. Due for a rehearing.

    6. Adler.               ditto.      Superbly-paced opening.

    7. Horenstein. Makes everything sound right.

    8. Boulez.      Started to get on good terms with 8 with this performance.

    9. Horenstein. Always interesting.

    10. Rattle/Bournemouth. The Bernstein of our day.

    LE/SE. Klemperer. I like it serious.

  There are any number of conductors others mention a lot that I haven't reached, and I'm ready now for a little splashing out.


  PS. The most haunting moment of 10 for me is the first emergence of that flute tune early in the finale. Might try a poem about it.


   Ivor