Mahler & "Fantasia"?

[Mackjay]

It's not terribly serious, but I am listening to M2 and thinking how Mahler's music might have suited the makers of Disney's FANTASIA. For all its musical transgressions (cut and re-edited scores), this was a film that really helped to establish an interest in 'classical' music for a lot of young people.

I was wondering what music of Mahler might have been suitable for a "Fantasia" treament back in 1940. Almost any of the first 3 movements of M2 seem likely to me, especially the Scherzo--I can see an underwater scenario for that (Sermon to the Fishes).
It seems M7 II would also be a good choice, a nocturnal trip through a forest perhaps?
M3 II also might make a nice pastoral scene.

Any other thoughts on this, or is it just too silly?

[john haueisen]

Mackjay,
It's not silly at all. 
Mahler's music is so evocative that it would have been an excellent choice for Fantasia or a similar film idea. 
I certainly agree that parts of M2 and M3 would be excellent.  I especially envision some of the sounds from M3 of small "frightened animals," as Ben Zander describes it.
I can also imagine a Disneyesque winter scene introduced by the sleighbells that begin M4.
Such a film might be a great way to introduce classical music, and Mahler especially to young children.
Great idea, Mackjay!
--John H

[Don]

Try the second movement of Berio's "Sinfonia" for a wild and woolly fantasia on the M2 Scherzo. The music does lend itself to all sorts of visual interpretations.

[Amphissa]

This is the video game generation, so you'd need video game storyline and graphics.

Women and children march and march and march and march and march and march and march and march and march and march and march and march and march (pick an assortment of marches from different symphonies). They sing (3rd symphony). You are Thor, with your big hammer. You use your great hammer blows to squash all the women and children, splattering blood and guts everywhere (6th symphony).

 

[john haueisen]

Amphissa, some of us just love marches and more marches--and big hammers too.
But I'll admit that you scare me by reminding me that the video game generation would expect lots of blood & guts and annihilation.
Hey, annihilation!  That's what those M6 hammerblows seem to do.
--John H

[Amphissa]

Yes, I know that I am the only one here who does not like marches much. But at least I like enough of everything else about Mahler's music to enable me to enjoy his music despite the marches.

I do think Fantasia would be very different today than it was in 1940 when it was first released. Graphic violence and sex are the norm now, on the Internet and in video games and on television. It is a much different world.

In all seriousness, I would love to see a video based on the final movement of M9. I think that could be spectacular and very moving.
 

[john haueisen]

On that, dear Amphissa, we certainly agree!

[Mackjay]

I certainly like marches,  and I think there is no Mahler without marches. Yet, I never even thought of marches for a Fantasia-type treatment until you mentioned them.   

Certainly, the 3rd mvt of M1 would make a very interesting choice: Mahler himself (I think) said he was inspired by woodblock(?) images of animals attending a funeral for a hunter.  The minor-key 'Frère Jacques' funeral march and the beautiful interlude in that movement would conjure up some potent imagery


I disagree that younger viewers would insist on only violent, graphic images. Look at the huge successes of such animated fare as WALL-E, RATATOUILLE, NEMO and many others: responsible, family-friendly movies.  That said, I do think some of Mahler's music is violent in its way and that should not be a problem if treated responsibly

[John Kim]

In all seriousness, I would love to see a video based on the final movement of M9. I think that could be spectacular and very moving.

There was a French film "Hail Mary" (1985) which was essentially a modern retelling virgin Mary. In several key passages M9:IV was used in the background. It was appropriate and in its own way, quite moving.

Nobody mentions M7:III?? It's the spookiest stuff Mahler ever wrote and would be a first choice for Fantasia.

John,

[Mackjay]

In all seriousness, I would love to see a video based on the final movement of M9. I think that could be spectacular and very moving.

There was a French film "Hail Mary" (1985) which was essentially a modern retelling virgin Mary. In several key passages M9:IV was used in the background. It was appropriate and in its own way, quite moving.

Nobody mentions M7:III?? It's the spookiest stuff Mahler ever wrote and would be a first choice for Fantasia.

John,

I remember HAIL MARY, a very controversial Godard film. It was picketed (by people who hadn't seen it of course) due to its "offensive" religious content 
That was so long ago, but at the time I must have noted the use of the Mahler in it.

You're right M7:III would be a good choice. After reading your post that music has been running in my mind all afternoon! It's an example of a movement that sound distinctly "pictorial'' to me, without being specific or programmatic. I find both of the Nachtmusik movements to be this way as well. M7 in general always sounds less abstract and more imagistic in this way to me, while M9 always sounds very abstract to my ears.

[barry guerrero]

With a little imagination, you could think of Ken Russell's "Mahler" as being a biographical, non-animated "Fantasia". In other words, there's plenty of fantasy to it.

Barry

[john haueisen]

and plenty of Mahler's music too!

--John H

[Mackjay]

HI John
I remember being so disappointed in that Russell film. But I should have know, with Ken Russell, if anyone has seen his Tchaikovsky film. He monkeys around so much with the story, but there are a couple of effective moments, as in the white horse in the forest at night when we hear M7.

Russell did make some good composer films for the BBC: Elgar, Debussy, Delius...

[john haueisen]

Yes, there were things in the Russell film that could put people off.
At first I was shocked by seeing Cosima Wagner portrayed as an attractive black leather-clad Nazi drill master.  Later, I decided to just accept it as a portrayal of the status quo bureaucrats and "old boys clubs" that Mahler had to deal with on his way to assuming the directorship of the Vienna Opera.
There was a lot of good in the film, if we look at it not as  photographs of Mahler's life, but as an impressionistic painting.
--John H

[barry guerrero]

I think it's fabulous. The more I see it, the more I believe it's right on the money.