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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Mahler 6 with 2 hammer strokes
« Last post by barryguerrero on May 25, 2018, 10:49:53 AM »
I should also add, that if it weren't for the metallic "ping" hammer strokes, the Dohnanyi/Cleveland (Decca) M6 might very well be my favorite two-stroke Mahler 6. The playing and the sound are second to none. Dohnanyi's timings are very similar to Boulez/VPO.

How Dohnanyi managed to get metal in there - when the score clearly states that the hammer strokes are to be "non metallic" in sound - is way beyond me.
Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: MTT
« Last post by barryguerrero on May 25, 2018, 10:45:19 AM »
Short answer: no.  A bit longer: you could do better for a lot less money. If you wish to stick with a single conductor, I would go - in order -  Gary Bertini, E. Inbal, Jonathan Nott, Boulez, Markus Stenz. I would rate the Stenz higher if the recorded sound were better. All this is assuming you're looking for something more recent and not the early birds such as Bernstein, Haitink, Kubelik, Abravanel, etc.

I noticed a change in MTT at the very start of his Mahler cycle. The first item, M6, was a red flag to me.  He has somehow gone off the tracks. I don't know why or how.
Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / MTT
« Last post by Settembrini on May 25, 2018, 02:39:23 AM »
Hi everyone,

Last tuesday I heard Michael Tilson-Thomas conduct the 6th and 7th symphonies of Sibelius (what glorious music!) with the London Symphony Orchestra in Amsterdam. I was very disappointed, not with that great orchestra, but with MTT. He didn't seem to understand, or even like, Sibelius. It was as if, as one critic aptly described it, Sibelius was "bathing in the Californian sun." I've heard good things about his Mahler cycle in San Fransisco, but I've only heard the 4th, with its very slow adagio. I've never understood MTT's reputation. Any thoughts on MTT as a Mahler conductor, and his San Fransisco cycle in particular? Is it worth investigating?
Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Mahler 6 with 2 hammer strokes
« Last post by barryguerrero on May 24, 2018, 11:17:02 AM »
The finale of the MTT/SFS recording sounds on 'auto pilot' to me. I don't think he really liked it, or got 'into it' very much. More than anything, it really bugs me that they totally disregard the "muted" marking for the snare drum at the very spot where the third hammer blow exists in the first version. That undermines the whole point of that very moment. It's usually muted by simply switching the snares off. Instead, they play it quite loudly with the snares on.

Furthermore, you can get the effect of a mini hammer stroke, just by placing an accent at the start of the snare drum roll, with the snares turned off. It works very well.

For me, MTT's slow movement is turned into a sappy Adagio, which it ain't, while the scherzo is just there - nothing frightening or spooky about it. Again - just for me - it's a complete non starter. If I wanted a newer recording with an American orchestra, I would reach for Eshenbach/Philly, J. van Zweden/Dallas (a low level recording that needs to be turned way up [then it sounds great]), or even Vaenska/Minnesota.

If Chicago were a must (they never seem to do M6 all that great), I would rank them Abbado, Solti, then Haitink.
Hi Barry Thanks for your reply, i forgot to mention that i do own own the Papanno i never warmed to it that much though.  I may end up with both Harding and Young.

I really like the finale of the Tilson-Thomas, it just hits all the right aspects for me, as mentioned i havent listened to the 6th in a awhile so it might not work for me the same way it did previously.
Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Mahler 6 with 2 hammer strokes
« Last post by barryguerrero on May 24, 2018, 12:23:35 AM »
I would say they're quite different. The Young one is much better recorded. Harding has a really good scherzo and generally faster tempi overall. Both orchestras are equally good, I'd say. The Harding is on one disc, while the S. Young is on two discs. Young is quite interesting at the third stroke.

One that you should also consider is the Pappano on EMI. It's well recorded, well played, has two hammer strokes and is good in all four movements. Amazon doesn't seem to have any cheap used copies at the moment, though.
What are your thoughts on the Harding and Young?  They sound slightly similar in the brief samples i have heard, but maybe i heard more passion from the Hamburg but better playing from the Bavarian's.
Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Mahler 6 with 2 hammer strokes
« Last post by barryguerrero on May 23, 2018, 10:07:35 AM »
Not only does the Simone Young recording have three hammer strokes, she gives more bars (measures) of the first version orchestration surrounding that stroke than Zanders did. She goes first version from the measure before the 3rd stroke, to the very start of the funereal dirge for low brass. This is of real interest because there's a fascinating major/minor 'thang' that happens in the lower woodwinds that ain't there in the revision. It sounds great, too.

As I've said many times before, I wish somebody would give a performance - and make a recording - of the complete first version of the finale (lots more percussion!).
Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Mahler 6 with 2 hammer strokes
« Last post by James Meckley on May 23, 2018, 05:19:38 AM »
Mea culpa! Your reviewer is right and I was wrong—the Simone Young recording does indeed include the third hammer blow. But my basic point remains true: there is only a handful of commercial recordings which feature the third hammer blow and the two-hammer-blow version is by far the more common option. Sorry for the confusion.

ah right, i was reading a review of the Simone Young which said it included 3 hammer strokes, so obviously the reviewer is confused and then confused me into thinking that 3 was the preferred option. sorry to be a complete and utter stupid person, my Mahler credentials have now hit rock bottom :P
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