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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: M7/I with Haitink/BRSO - sheer perfection for me
« Last post by barryguerrero on November 20, 2024, 07:43:53 PM »Great observations, guys. Thank you.
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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: M7/I with Haitink/BRSO - sheer perfection for me
« Last post by Roland Flessner on November 20, 2024, 05:06:34 PM »Thanks, Erik, good observations. I still have the Lenny Sony issue but the DG recording went away in a shelf cleaning. I never really cared for either one.
M7/V has to be really tough for a conductor and orchestra to pull off with such frequent changes of tempo, meter, and mood. After Haitink/BRSO last night I spun up Inbal/Frankfurt in V and it's outstanding, establishing and maintaining a narrative line start to finish despite all the kaleidoscopic changes along the way. The recording is foggy in the bass, the upper woodwinds would benefit from more presence, and chimes are used instead of real bells, but those aside, it really is a compelling performance.
M7/V has to be really tough for a conductor and orchestra to pull off with such frequent changes of tempo, meter, and mood. After Haitink/BRSO last night I spun up Inbal/Frankfurt in V and it's outstanding, establishing and maintaining a narrative line start to finish despite all the kaleidoscopic changes along the way. The recording is foggy in the bass, the upper woodwinds would benefit from more presence, and chimes are used instead of real bells, but those aside, it really is a compelling performance.
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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: M7/I with Haitink/BRSO - sheer perfection for me
« Last post by erikwilson7 on November 20, 2024, 03:07:32 PM »Roland, I've also noticed how Haitink handles the last couple of bars in his old RCO recording. I think the only other times I've heard it done similarly are both of Bernstein's versions (Sony and DG). The difference is that Haitink's is a real sforzando, whereas what Bernstein's trumpeters do in both of his recordings are more of a 'bowtie' diminuendo-crescendo into the last note. As we both know, neither methods are what Mahler actually wrote.
It's less successfully pronounced in the earlier DG recording; it almost sounds like the trumpets are a car whizzing by ― a sort of doppler effect. In the later DG recording, we get to hear much more of the bowtie dynamics I mentioned.
It's less successfully pronounced in the earlier DG recording; it almost sounds like the trumpets are a car whizzing by ― a sort of doppler effect. In the later DG recording, we get to hear much more of the bowtie dynamics I mentioned.
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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: M7/I with Haitink/BRSO - sheer perfection for me
« Last post by Roland Flessner on November 20, 2024, 06:40:05 AM »Overall this is really a fine performance, well characterized and executed but I agree that the scherzo seems too cautious and the finale would benefit from more momentum. I'll have to listen again to Jansons/BRSO because during my most recent M7 obsession I thought that recording was at the top level.
Two quibbles about Haitink: At rehearsal number 254 in the finale, the bass drum plays two forte eighth notes, a pattern that repeats two bars later. In this BRSO recording the first two strokes are missing. (My score is the Eulenberg which may be less authoritative than the UE or newer edition.) Then, in the penultimate bar, the trumpets and low brass are supposed to start fortissimo then diminuendo to piano. This is one of Mahler's jokes, because we've endured several false endings already and it sounds like he's going to trail off and do it again, then ends with the "stinger" in the last bar. I can't think of any other conductor who ignores this direction except for Haitink. In his old RCO recording he starts the brass quietly then does a crescendo, the opposite of Mahler's instructions. In later performances, such as one live here in Chicago and on this BRSO edition, he plays a kind of sforzando, loud at first then somewhat quieter, but not a diminuendo. He seemed to have a bee in his bonnet about those last two bars and the musical logic escapes me.
Two quibbles about Haitink: At rehearsal number 254 in the finale, the bass drum plays two forte eighth notes, a pattern that repeats two bars later. In this BRSO recording the first two strokes are missing. (My score is the Eulenberg which may be less authoritative than the UE or newer edition.) Then, in the penultimate bar, the trumpets and low brass are supposed to start fortissimo then diminuendo to piano. This is one of Mahler's jokes, because we've endured several false endings already and it sounds like he's going to trail off and do it again, then ends with the "stinger" in the last bar. I can't think of any other conductor who ignores this direction except for Haitink. In his old RCO recording he starts the brass quietly then does a crescendo, the opposite of Mahler's instructions. In later performances, such as one live here in Chicago and on this BRSO edition, he plays a kind of sforzando, loud at first then somewhat quieter, but not a diminuendo. He seemed to have a bee in his bonnet about those last two bars and the musical logic escapes me.
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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Rattle/BRSO/BR Klassik M7th to be released next month (NMI)
« Last post by barryguerrero on November 18, 2024, 06:29:32 PM »Finally, we have the timings for the upcoming Rattle/BRSO M7. This was clearly taken from a different session than the live broadcast BR Klassik put up online. The first movement stretches to almost 22 minutes, and the middle movement scherzo is beyond 10 minutes. The 14 minute second movement (first Nocturne) is still a bit too breezy for my liking (Abbado nails this movement), but that's OK. I may very well get a CD of it myself.
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/gustav-mahler-symphonie-nr-7/hnum/12103498
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/gustav-mahler-symphonie-nr-7/hnum/12103498
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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / M7/I with Haitink/BRSO - sheer perfection for me
« Last post by barryguerrero on November 17, 2024, 05:10:22 AM »I'm generally not a big fan of the first movement to M7. I feel it's often times played too fast. Clocking in at 22:50, I feel Haitink's 'live' BRSO first movement is outstanding - he gets it just right for me. I just wish his third movement Scherzo weren't stretched out beyond 11 minutes. And while the ending of the finale is outstanding on the Haitink, I wish he had kept the tempo up a bit more in the back half of the finale. Still, I may try to find a used CD of it . . . . . . I feel the first movement is pretty good on the recent Sado/Tonkunstler one as well. F.Y.I.
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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: status of Bychkov/CPO Mahler cycle.
« Last post by John Kim on November 14, 2024, 06:27:18 PM »Barry,
Someone posted so on Semyon Bychkov's FB. I don't know how accurate the information is though. However, that M3rd will be the next installment seems to correct info.
John
Someone posted so on Semyon Bychkov's FB. I don't know how accurate the information is though. However, that M3rd will be the next installment seems to correct info.
John
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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Australian World Orchestra to perform M4 + M5 in November 2025
« Last post by akiralx on November 14, 2024, 10:28:57 AM »9
Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: Rattle/BRSO/BR Klassik M7th to be released next month (NMI)
« Last post by barryguerrero on November 13, 2024, 08:17:38 PM »That's not so long away. For the mean time, I'm enjoying the more luxurious and deeply probed Sado/Tonkunstler M7. I'm also waiting to find a used and 'cheap' copy of Haitink's last M7 with the BRSO. Much of the finale is a bit too slow, but I love how Haitink stretches the final peroration near the very end.
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Gustav Mahler and Related Discussions / Re: status of Bychkov/CPO Mahler cycle.
« Last post by barryguerrero on November 13, 2024, 08:14:30 PM »John, when you say "I heard", what precisely does that mean? . . .
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