Jurowski M2

[John Kim]

So far I've listened to I. and the final 10 min. of V.

My first impression (which might change at a later point) is that the performance, however well played and recorded, is lightweight. I didn't hear much swagger or grandeur in this recording. Notes are all there and the playing is very crisp and pointed, however.

I will try it again soon.

John,

[barry guerrero]

Yeah, but what I don't hear ANY of you commenting on is that the acoustics of Royal Festival Hall have been HUGELY improved. To me, Jurowski is a very fire-y conductor. As the for the orchestra, it's the usual LPO:  big cymbals; loud horns; not terribly strong low brass, but proficient; decent strings, and probably THE best woodwind section in London (which isn't really saying all that much). Because of the improvements in the acoustics, there's far, FAR more bass response than in previous decades. I'll take it over the dragged-out "live" Tennstedt any day.

Also, having the bells played 'ad lib.' at the end of the symphony is a matter of preference, I suppose. I'm not convinced that the way Mahler wrote the part works all that well. The best solution, I reckon, is displayed on the Bertini M2, where you have one set of large bells - onstage - playing the part as written, while another set of offstages bells bongs away in the distance.

[John Kim]

Barry,

As usual, your observations here are so accurate: LPO has always had big cymbals, loud horns (which I really LIKE) and decent strings.

Maybe I wasn't just in a mood for this kind of Resurrection, so will try it again tonight .

John,

[techniquest]

Barry; yes of course the acoustics are a massive improvement. However, you could have the best acoustics that could possibly exist, but if the performance doesn't hit the heart - for whatever reason - then it's only matter-of-fact.
I'm more interested in your observation about the bells in the Bertini recording. I haven't heard that recording yet (...yes, I know...) but I am now prompted to rectify that as soon as possible. Onstage and offstage bells: bonging in aural perspective! It's a must!

[John Kim]

WAIT!!

I hear DRC (dynamic range compression) in most of the climactic passages in Jurowski M2nd.

This is so unfortunate because otherwise the sonics are quite good.

Why the DRC?? Isn't this supposed to be a digital recording??

John,

[John Kim]

I also find Scherzo mov. strange.

About 3:45 into the movt. there is a passage that starts with a low string. I've memorized the entire passage in my head and also have the score. But some of the notes seem to be missing here. Either the mistake in the playing or in the editing??

Go figure yourself!!

John,

[brunumb]

I have listened to the Jurowski M2 a few times now and my opinion has not changed.  To me the tempo changes and phrasing just seem mannered, too self-conscious.  I found the timps much too loud and prominent, unnecessarily aggressive, even brutal at the start of the scherzo.  Why?  The singing is OK, but not a standout.  Sure, the ending is loud and full on.  But that's all.  There's more to the second symphony than organ, bells and tam-tam.  This one didn't move me at any time I'm afraid.

[mahlerei]

Hmm, I wouldn't agree that the Royal Festival Hall sounds better since its makeover. It's still fairly bright, dry and, in some seats, it actually sounds worse than it did before the refurb.

It's a great pity that London, my home city, still doesn't have a concert hall to rival the best elsewhere in the UK - Birmingham, for instance - and abroad.

The vast sums of money being thrown at the 2012 Olympics would have been much better spent replacing the RFH and its crummy environs with a new, state-of-the-art complex.

[barry guerrero]

Whatever the reason, the bass response is better than usual, as captured on this particular disc. I have friends in London who think that RFH does, indeed, sound better. One person I know, who I feel has a very keen ear, thinks that RFH sounds much better than previously. I can't judge because I haven't been there in decades. But I noticed a huge difference right at the start of disc 1 (double basses and celli)

To address a previous response, I think the scherzo is terrific. Just follow the clarinet phrasing, if nothing else. You can almost hear the vocalist from the corresponding Wunderhorn song. Yes, the tempo jumps around a bit, but not destructively so. This is still an early Mahler symphony, and it shouldn't sound mature beyond its years. There's still a bit of influence from Franz Liszt in the 2nd symphony (and maybe Berlioz as well). That's just an opinion.

Yes, there is more to ANY Mahler symphony than just organ, bells and tam-tams. I would not be enthused about the the Jurowski if I thought that that's all it had going for it.

Also, because I like the Jurowski, doesn't mean that I now dislike Bernstein (the early N.Y. one), Klemperer (especially the live BRSO one), Andrew Litton (I like the tons of separate tracks), Stokowski, Fischer, P. Jaarvi, Ozawa/Saito Kinen, or any of the other ones I've chosen to keep for various reasons.

And by the way, the LPO timpani over-pound on many of the Tennstadt recordings as well, but everybody (not me) would describe a 'live' Tennstedt performance as inspired and passionate. I feel that much of his late work borders on the overwrought. As I said, I'll take this over the highly touted Tennstedt (the live one) any day.

I edited this entry because much of what I had to say was not conducive to a positive, objective conversation.

Barry

[John Kim]

I also find Scherzo mov. strange.

About 3:45 into the movt. there is a passage that starts with a low string. I've memorized the entire passage in my head and also have the score. But some of the notes seem to be missing here. Either the mistake in the playing or in the editing??

Go figure yourself!!

John,

Did anybody check this out??

I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

John,

[brunumb]

I don't have expectations of everybody agreeing with me - that would retarded.  But I am a bit annoyed with the level of responses to the Jurowski - especially when something feels like barb at me.
Barry

Don't get your feathers ruffled Barry.  My comment about bells/organ/tam-tams was not specifically aimed at you.  In fact I hadn't revisited any of the earlier posts and forgotten most of the comments written here.

BUT, now that you mention it, in the back of my mind I'm sure that I have noticed that many of your reviews (and those of others I should add) focus a little excessively on the presence of those instruments.  Maybe that's what prompted my particular remark.  You are obviously a very knowledgeable musician and I am pretty much ignorant when it comes to the technicalities of music. I bow to your expertise in that respect and always read your reviews with great interest and appreciation for the insights you offer.

[barry guerrero]

"I have noticed that many of your reviews (and those of others I should add) focus a little excessively on the presence of those instruments"

That's greatly because up until more recent times - the last decade or two - percussion wasn't always attended to properly, or thoroughly enough, in Mahler performances. Things have improved greatly, and there really isn't a need to focus on perc. so much these days (in regards to Mahler). That said, however, the percussion and organ ARE very important at the end of the Mahler 2nd because there's absolutely nothing else going on other than the brass sounding the tonic and dominant chords, and the strings holding long tones (long bow strokes or tremolos). Even today, the logistics for the ending of M2 remain problematic. Another point: if anybody doubts the importance of percussion in Mahler's writing, just look into the cheap Dover Edition scores. You'll be amazed what's there.

Sorry if I over-reacted. (editied) By the way, I think Stojtijn sounds very good, but singers are always a very subjective 'taste' type of thing. Sorry again.

B.

[brunumb]

I agree with you about the ending of M2.  Unless it is handled well it can be a bit of a let down.  After the final chorus Mahler seems to let the wind out of the sails by letting the music die down.  It doesn't quite recover from that in my opinion.

Time to revisit the M2 collection and sort the wheat from the chaff 

[barry guerrero]

"Unless it is handled well it can be a bit of a let down.  After the final chorus Mahler seems to let the wind out of the sails by letting the music die down.  It doesn't quite recover from that in my opinion"

Exactly. Great observation. Sorry about the ruffled feathers, but I'm realizing now that several factors were combined to create a 'perfect storm'. There was a party in the cafe (connected to the Musical Offering), and it was really loud in here. As a result, several customers were very difficult and nasty. Blah-blah-blah   

[brunumb]

All is well